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March 12th, 2013
10:52 AM ET

Michigan mom's gay adoption heartbreak

By Tommy Andres, CNN

Editor's Note: On March 26th and 27th, the US Supreme Court will hear two key cases regarding same-sex marriage. Every Monday and Tuesday in March, CNN Radio will feature stories about issues related to same-sex marriage.  

Listen to the full story in our player above, and join the conversation in our comments section below.

Lansing, Michigan (CNN) – Marie Wolfe says she and her partner of four years, Becky, were as in love as any straight couple when they decided to start a family. Gay marriage is illegal in Michigan, but the couple exchanged rings and used a sperm donor so that Becky could get pregnant. Marie had always wanted kids, even before Becky, but couldn't have them herself.

The couple became the proud parents of twins, a boy and a girl, and three months after they were born Becky (whose name has been changed to protect her identity) and Marie went before a Michigan judge. Becky absolved her parental rights and with the help of an adoption agency and the judge the two adopted the children together.

Marie says they were given a state-issued adoption certificate and a new birth certificate with both of their names on them.

[3:07] “When I had the adoption certificate in my hand and I realized it was official, it was legal, nothing was ever going to come between the children and I, I just felt like, I’m going to have the privilege of raising these two children for the rest of my life.”

But as in many relationships, the bind between Becky and Marie began to strain. When the children were just over a year old, the couple broke up. Becky took the children and left, and Marie called her lawyers to try and win partial custody.

But another Michigan judge named Richard Garcia was assigned the case, and he ruled that the adoption was invalid:

[5:25] “What this really was is what we call a fiction under the law. There was an attempt to create law where none exists. In Michigan, marriage is defined as marriage between a man and a woman. Some activist judges, quite frankly, decide they don’t like the law the way it is so they come up with a ruse to get around that situation.”

Last summer, a different lesbian couple sued the state of Michigan for the right to adopt the three children they are raising together. Michigan passed a constitutional amendment in 2004 banning gay marriage. Only individuals and married couples are allowed to adopt, so the lawsuit encompassed the ban on marriage as well.

Last week the judge presiding over the Michigan case decided to suspend his ruling until the Supreme Court rules on the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA. Arguments in that case will be heard later this month. A decision is expected this summer.

Marie Wolfe is paying extra attention to the Michigan ruling. This is her story.

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soundoff (1,779 Responses)
  1. Peter Q Wolfe

    Why is it viewed differently between hetrosexuals infertile than homosexuals being married? Hardly ever are the rules or norms applied to hetrosexuals in artificial insimulation in natural vs artificial births. I agree that I don't like unatural births just in adoptions but that doesn't mean that I should deny others that right to choose for themselves that best fits them not myself. Ultimately let live cause people do this stuff irregardless of laws cause that is human nature "Freedom" hard concept to actually get right?

    March 14, 2013 at 8:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • richard miller

      Somewhere I think there is supposed to be some punctuation or a rewrite,but other than that,no.Fine give rights to folks who are after all citizens,neighbors,coworkers etc.But before we rewrite the human experience,there ought to be rules,just like for everyone else.There is no biological imperitive for society.There are 7 billion of us.Heteros already do the job of parenting badly,a lot of the time.By all means,let gays adopt,just not ivf or surrogacy.Why provide what nature does not.It is litwerally 'inconcievable' for a same sex couple to procreate.It's not discrimination,its' the law,natures law written into our dna,for a couple billion years

      March 15, 2013 at 8:21 am | Report abuse |
      • Pete

        ".By all means,let gays adopt,just not ivf or surrogacy."

        If you are going to be so stupid in your prejudice then this will also include infertile couples. What an idiot.

        March 15, 2013 at 3:00 pm | Report abuse |
        • richard miller

          I sense you disagree.I'd recommend a guiding hand to review before you comment.But in that same light,I'd say that if you don't know the difference,you can shove it where,well you know where,intimately.Hetero and homo are NOT the same.However deluded you might be

          March 16, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          "homo are NOT the same.However deluded you might be"

          Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

          Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

          A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

          Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

          March 17, 2013 at 11:49 am | Report abuse |
  2. bendertheoffender

    She can't be listed as a Biological Parent because she is not one plain and simple. They can just tell the kids whatever story they want but at the end of the day does it really matter. If it doesnt then they are just fine, if it does then too bad.

    March 14, 2013 at 7:36 pm | Report abuse |
  3. bob saget

    Gay Marriage
    When I first started to read this article, I didn’t know if it would honestly be something that would interest me. As I finished up reading it, I realized that I agree with it one hundred percent. I understand that most people think that marriage should be a man and a woman. But that’s different for some people.
    If two women wanted to be together, I would support it. I don’t see a thing wrong with it. I feel the same about two guys being together. Love is love and it shouldn’t matter what your sexual preference is. I understand it is illegal in some states, but sometimes things can change. In the article there was a lesbian couple that lived in Michigan, Marie and Becky. They had been together for four years and Marie even said they were as happy as any straight couple when they decided to start a family. Gay marriage is illegal in Michigan, but they used a sperm donor so that Becky could become pregnant. They became parents of two twins, a boy and a girl.
    Three months after their twins were born, the couple decided to go before a Michigan judge. They absolved their parental rights and with the help of an adoption agency and the judge the two adopted the children together legally. But as in most relationships, Becky and Marie split up when the children were just about one year old. Becky took the children without Marie’s permission and left. That’s when Marie called her lawyers to try to win partial custody. Another judge came into the case and said that the adoption was invalid. I don’t see why it is such a big deal for the same sex to be together. If they are happy then it’s fine, just let them be together.
    I disagreed with the last judge that came into the case. He said the adoption was invalid, which he shouldn’t have. If you are in love with someone that is the same sex as you and if you are extremely happy then no one is going to stop you. Sometimes people can’t help it what they like. There was also a different lesbian couple that sued the state of Michigan for the right to adopt three children that they are raising together. But of course Michigan passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.
    It upsets me that they would even make something like this illegal. It’s not like it would hurt anybody. If two people are happy together then it shouldn’t matter if they are the same sex or not. I think that gay marriage should just be legal everywhere. One of my friends likes their same sex, and I support them no matter what. Love is love and it shouldn’t matter what your sexual preference is.

    March 14, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • richard miller

      Love who you want is correct,that's fine.But we are under no obligation to offer what nature has not.By 'virtue' of there not being a man in the mix,conversely a woman for 2 gays,there can't be a baby.An infertile hetero couple mimics nature if they have ivf or surrogacy,a gay couple does not

      March 15, 2013 at 8:16 am | Report abuse |
      • Really?

        "An infertile hetero couple mimics nature if they have ivf or surrogacy,a gay couple does not"

        Wrong. The experts have shown that like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

        Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

        A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

        Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

        March 15, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • Samantha

        Gay people have just as much of a right to raise a child as anyone else. As you can see, it is in fact possible for them to have a family. It is just like adoption. So what if the child technically does not have both parent's DNA. Gay couples can care for a child just as well as a straight couple. Honestly if i had gay parents it wouldn't make me love them any less, and I really don't think it would effect the child as long as it's explained to them in the right manner.

        March 20, 2013 at 12:21 am | Report abuse |
  4. rob

    Is it real that two women can bare a famiily?
    If your really gay then why is it so important to have children?
    You do know how children are made? don't you? (ok don't answer this)
    What does the law say?
    Is the judge living in make believe land also?
    In the end the law is really what matters in this case. Obay the law Mr Judge!

    March 14, 2013 at 1:00 am | Report abuse |
  5. outsidethebox

    As an child who was orphaned, and grew up with other children who were orphaned, I can tell you that we would give given anything to have been raised by a loving parent, let alone 2 loving parents. There are so many unwanted children in this country. Loving, financially stable people should be allowed to adopt, regardless of sexual orientation.

    March 14, 2013 at 12:51 am | Report abuse |
    • richard miller

      Sure,adopt away!Just not IVF or surrogacy

      March 14, 2013 at 10:31 am | Report abuse |
      • Pete

        Gays and lesbians can do what ever they want, it's not against the law. What an idiot.

        March 14, 2013 at 3:05 pm | Report abuse |
        • richard miller

          An idiot would be you for believing your opinion trumps mine jerk.

          March 15, 2013 at 8:02 am | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          Your opinion is just a prejudice bigoted one not based on the law, research or biology.

          March 15, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Report abuse |
  6. Peter Q Wolfe

    I really don't like he anecdotes that biology is the only contributing factor to fit someones gender role or whatever in human development. Fact is that my father starved and beat on me so I learned more of how men have treated my mom than I did from fellow men themselves. Its a fallacy as a gay man that you would deny me right afforded to other americans and say that we're a free nation and secular of religious influence that wouldn't be the case with denying equal rights to minorities. Watch out fellow minorities cause like in all civil rights an attack against one is an attack against all minorities like scape goating immigrants like it with the break down of the nuclear family with homosexuals like me.

    March 13, 2013 at 9:28 pm | Report abuse |
  7. Cocopuf4u

    Gay people must NOT adopt any children. It is bad enough that gays are confused people to begin with, and adopting innocent children is also a dead end sin (period)

    Those that think that they can play with the lives of other children for their own selfish lifestyles will face judgment at their appointed times. You need to change your ways before it is too late. Without Christ, you have no "life." Repent and change your ways before it is too late.

    March 13, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • Proud313

      do you give the same speech to your priest(s) – the ones that diddle all the little boys in the church basement ?????

      March 13, 2013 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jet

      Something is wrong in your head.

      March 14, 2013 at 1:57 am | Report abuse |
    • James

      You're wrong. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.

      March 14, 2013 at 8:53 am | Report abuse |
      • richard miller

        We are much more evolved.Back then they would've simply killed a person for that 'abomination',there were probably very few 'takers'

        March 15, 2013 at 8:24 am | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          "killed a person for that 'abomination"

          That just proves how stupid the writers where. Don't forget all the other abominations too, Unclean things (Lev. 7:21) ; Cheating (Mic. 6:10) ; A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17) ; A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22) ; Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17) ; A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18) ; A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19) ; A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19) ; A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1) ; The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5) ; Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15) ; Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15) ; Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9) ; Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5) Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4) ; Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16) ; Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15) ; Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17) ; Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13) ; Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)

          March 15, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "Those that think that they can play with the lives of other children for their own selfish lifestyles"

      They aren't playing, they are providing loving nurturing environments. Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

      Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

      A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

      Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

      March 14, 2013 at 8:56 am | Report abuse |
    • Candace

      I think its funny that as a Christian you'd rather JUDGE and condem gays then LOVE them. Its not for you to determine if they are sinning or not, that's God's job. The Bible specifically says, "Judge not lest ye be judged," "Worry about the LOG in your own eye before you worry about the TWIG in someone else's, oh and my personal favorite, "Jesus said his greatest commandment is to love the Lord you God with all of your heart and mind and the second greatest is TO LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF." You clearly must be reading a different Bible than I am based on your hateful comments! Do those things before you try and tell someone else to repent!!! Also, on a side note, you can't force others to believe the faith that we do. This is America and our Country was founded on religious FREEDOM. So everyone has the choice to believe or not believe, just as God gave us free will, in America its up to each person to decide what to believe and how to believe for themselves. Stop trying to legislate our religion into law!!! It doesn't fit with the founding values of this Country and it certainly doesn't fit with the ideals of freedom! I pray for the day when ALL people are treated EQUALLY under the law.

      Signed,

      A Straight Christian Republican

      March 15, 2013 at 8:40 am | Report abuse |
    • Bekabran42

      I come from a family of 8 children, five of whom were adopted and my mother is a lesbian. My two younger sisters, who were adopted when they were 8 and 9 years old (I was an infant) will tell you that living in a loving home with a great and loving family (their own rooms, a stable and permanent living environment ) is MUCH preferable than life in a foster home. They are both in college and doing great. I can't see where they would have had a better life if they hand not been adopted by a gay person! I also can't see how, after 6 children, adopting 2 more makes my mother "selfish."

      March 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • Samantha

      You sound so rediculous. You are going against the bible and gods ways by judging people in the first place. good job, you deserve a slow clap.

      March 20, 2013 at 12:25 am | Report abuse |
  8. JBD

    All right ... are most of you REALLY that slow? To all of you attacking this judge! Do you really not understand the danger associated with a judge ignoring the law and ruling based upon his own personal beliefs? By the way, I believe that the Michigan law should be change as I do support everyone's right to marry whomever they choose regardless of gender.
    However, do you people REALLY want judges to start throwing around their personal opinions when presiding over cases? If so, you aren't too bright are you? You clearly haven't thought this thing through have you?
    A judges job is not to create or change law (thank GOD) a judges job is to "interpret" the existing law!
    Don't you people understand how important it is that that separation exists?
    Let's say that common sense eventually prevails over the lawmakers in Michigan and the law is changed to allow gay and or lesbian couples to marry and adopt. But then some wacko judge decides that he doesn't like the law ... so he rules against it! How would you feel about that?
    We can't have judges over-ruling our legislatures! Like it or not, the second judge actually upheld the law as he is required by law to do! The first judge should be disbarred for over-ruling the law ... good or bad ... the law is the law!
    You people are advocating putting societies laws into the hands of every individual judge across the country? Do you really think that is what you want? Because I know (not personally) a lot of judges in Mississippi who would love to take you all up on that offer! God help gays and minorities in Mississippi! DUMMIES It's not the judges fault ... the law needs to be changed. Any of you who live in Michigan should work to make that happen.
    Can you imagine what our judicial system would like if all of you made the final decisions? You think we have innocent people in prison now ... allowing a judge to change the law on a whim would surely result in more widespread corruption and injustice than any of you could obviously ever imagine! The "bad guy" judge in this case actually did the right thing ... what's wrong is the law itself ... not the judge ... the first judge did the "Nazi thing" by over-ruling the law put in place by the legislature! These type of cases should be appealed to the state supreme court and then the US supreme court if necessary ... not change by Jo Blow the local judge!

    March 13, 2013 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      It's already at the U S Supreme court and 8 Appellate courts have ruled DOMA is unconstitutional. The decision will be made by this summer till then it helps to educate prejudice bigots on the real facts about gays and lesbians. This is about civil rights and if you don't get that then you don't understand at all.

      March 14, 2013 at 9:00 am | Report abuse |
  9. seriously_not

    Shame On Becky!

    March 13, 2013 at 7:29 pm | Report abuse |
  10. Gerk

    Michigan, this story makes you comparable to Texas. Please leave the country.

    March 13, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Report abuse |
  11. Steve

    That Christonazi judge needs to be impeached. Perfect example for why religious fanatics have no place in justice system. This was about parenting. Nothing else. Marriage had nothing to do with it.

    March 13, 2013 at 4:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • jim

      How dare judges follow the law and look out for the best interest of the children? The adoption was invalid. If this was a straight couple, the media wouldn't even care. Adoption was invalid, unrelated spouse as no right to visitation. Next case. Of course it's a gay couple so the laws don't apply to them. Gays have to be treated special. Don't give in to the gay rights temper tantrum, you'll be called a homophobe. Forget the biological mother of the kids doesn't want to share custody with the non-related former spouse who has no legal rights to the kids, they're gay so they're above such petty things as laws.

      March 13, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • Pete

        "The adoption was invalid. If this was a straight couple, the media wouldn't even care. Adoption was invalid, unrelated spouse as no right to visitation."
        It's only not valid because their marriage is not viewed as a marriage in the courts! It would be the same thing prior to 1967 that if it had been an African American man and a white woman, they too would not have been allowed to get married either, their marriage would have been viewed as illegal. Their union was viewed as immoral too. Yet in that case do you want to bet both would still be considered important to be in the child's life? Religion does not belong in the courts and neither does prejudice bigots.

        March 13, 2013 at 6:06 pm | Report abuse |
        • richard miller

          Blah blah black and white.NATURE determined that each individual homosexual is an entity unto yourself.YOUR GENES DIE

          March 13, 2013 at 9:05 pm | Report abuse |
        • rob

          Is it real that two women can bare a famiily?
          If your really gay then why is it so important to have children?
          You do know how children are made? don't you? (ok don't answer this)
          What does the law say?
          Is the judge living in make believe land also?
          In the end the law is really what matters in this case. Obay the law Mr Judge!

          March 14, 2013 at 12:59 am | Report abuse |
    • JBD

      I think attacking the judge in this case is a clear sign of ignorance ... I happen to agree that the law should be changed ... but I am also smart enough to understand that it is not this judges place to create or determine what the law should be. The judges job is to interpret the laws that are made by (in this case) the state legislature. So it is annoying to me that CNN names out the "bad guy" judge who actually only did his job correctly and not name the "good guy" judge who actually over-reached his authority! Turn the tables for a second ... what if the law specifically said that gay couples were entitled to legal adoption ... and then some judge who believes that marriage should only be between a man and a woman overrules the actual law and in favor of his own personal opinion. The point is that the more "Nazi-like" judge is the guy who overruled the actual law ... and that is extremely dangerous to our judicial system!

      March 13, 2013 at 8:36 pm | Report abuse |
  12. richard miller

    Usurping technology so that homosexuals can have children is wrong.Think you're straight,have kids and find out you aren't,fine.NATURE marginalized gays reproductively.We do not need to give them what EVOLUTION has not.Other than that,love who you want.Just don't drag us into it,as you are doing,calling 'gay marriage' the same as hetero

    March 13, 2013 at 4:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "We do not need to give them what EVOLUTION has not."

      Would you say the same prejudice remark to infertile straight people too? Probably not, your prejudice is only for gays because you don't get they already do have their own children.

      "Just don't drag us into it,as you are doing,calling 'gay marriage' the same as hetero"

      It's already legal in 12 states and this is about civil rights. The U S Supreme court ruled that marriage is a civil right. HOw about we take these rights away from you.

      Those rights include:
      Tax Benefits
      -–Filing joint income tax returns with the I R S and state taxing authorities.
      -–Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
      Estate Planning Benefits
      -–Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
      -–Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
      -–Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
      -–Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse – that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.
      Government Benefits
      -–Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
      -–Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
      -–Receiving public assistance benefits.
      -–Employment Benefits
      -–Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
      -–Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
      -–Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
      -–Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.
      Medical Benefits
      -–Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
      -–Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
      Death Benefits
      -–Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
      -–Making burial or other final arrangements.
      Family Benefits
      -–Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
      -–Applying for joint foster care rights.
      -–Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
      -–Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
      Housing Benefits
      -–Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
      -–Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
      Consumer Benefits
      -–Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
      -–Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
      -–Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
      -–Other Legal Benefits and Protections
      -–Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
      -–Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
      -–Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
      -–Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
      -–Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
      -–Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

      March 13, 2013 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • stinky

        That is a nice list you have, I'm all for the ones that do not add cost to the existing social programs that are funded out of my taxes. These benefit costs were not calculated based on the larger population to include same sex marriages. Everyone would have to take less so more could be paid. Lets put that stuff to a vote and see what the public says about spending their tax dollars in that way. Let majority rule on that...

        March 14, 2013 at 4:07 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          It wasn't all about taxes, obviously you have a reading problem.

          March 15, 2013 at 3:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "It's already legal in 12 states "

      Sorry typo, it's a 11 states now.

      March 13, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Report abuse |
      • richard miller

        Does not change that you are marginalized by nature.Not by god[as you don't want that in the conversation],but by dna.If a hetero[H] couple is infertile and uses ivf or surrogacy,they are MIMICING nature.Homosexual [h] are twisting nature.As far as benefits or inheritance I see no problem.Gays can have kids by #1,thinking they are straight and having a kid before they 'realize ' they are gay#2 a lesbian being raped #3 a lesbian consenting to hetero sex w a man,inheriting kids,or being assigned that status by a third party.Otherwise you can't have kids.This the bare bones underlying reason for marriage.Either by in earlier times,wedding for land and progeny,or now to be together.NATURE had rendered it invalid.

        March 13, 2013 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
        • darrell-louky

          richard miller, you are an idiot, you just can't change stupid....i will be praying for you. the two greatest things god gives a person is love and compassion. you have niether. i pray god has compassion for you on your judgement day !

          March 14, 2013 at 12:37 am | Report abuse |
        • darrell-louky

          i am a gay male with a partner of 17 years and we have a 1 year old son. we are taking care of this child , whom happens to be our world because your so called he hetero couple couldn't get it together and didn't care about their child. maybe you so called heteros should step up to the plate and adopt some of this wonderful chilldren. nope , i'm sure you couldn't do that. i am sure it would take away some of you funds and you couldn't attend a nascar event with you wife..

          March 14, 2013 at 12:43 am | Report abuse |
        • Reality Check

          Um Richard Bud, I really hope you dont honestly think rape is a preferable option over atrificial incemination. Because if you do, that is demented and id suggest you find a good psychiatrist. Second, arguing that IVF is inherently any different when preformed for a infertile heterosexual couple as opposed to a homosexual couple is a blatant fallacy. Both situations "mimic nature" to the same level as far as the procedure is concerned as both chldren will be grown in equally legitimate uterus. And as far as nature is concerned both couples would be equally unsuccessful at reproduction so on what grounds can you argue that "NATURE" intends one to be allowed to reproduce artificially and not the other? Wanna clarify on that one, maybe your seeing something im not?

          March 14, 2013 at 1:18 am | Report abuse |
        • richard miller

          How quaint.Name calling and supposition as replies.Nice .There isn't anything to refute what I say,as it is fact,NOT opinion,tho I hold it as my opinion.I like how disagreement means hate to you.Funny,I thought I kinda liked you.Oh well.For cryin out loud You KNOW how fruity young men can be,or how Mean butch some women can be.It's bad enough we who perform or MIMIC nature,we still do much of realtionships badly-for most of our 1/4 million years there HAVE been men and women H sapiens.Science,NATURE,DNA have marginalized you genetically.Each homosexual person IS an island,and that's just how it is.As for adoption,fine.Or as listed above,how else could it be.Be LOGICAL, not emotional.

          March 14, 2013 at 10:28 am | Report abuse |
        • Jeff

          Well folks I think that pretty much proves how dumb richard miller is on this subject.

          March 14, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Report abuse |
        • richard miller

          Too bad getting juice where the sun don't shine clouds your reasoning abilities.

          March 15, 2013 at 8:11 am | Report abuse |
        • Jeff

          See folks, just another example of the stupidity of this poster.

          March 15, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Report abuse |
  13. Peter Q Wolfe

    When viewing homosexuality abnormally, the result will be the opposite than what you intended on happening will occur. If you don't accept homosexuals as equals, then more homosexuals to bisexuals will cheat on hetrosexual partners and spread sexually transmitted diseases even more than they already are today. Believe me that I know this ladies and men cause I'm part of the LGBTQ community and you'd be surprised who your with might be with a same sex partner without you even knowing about it. The problem in America is this fixation of SEX as a taboo or moral which its neither just a normal physical function in life with whatever your sexual orientation happens to be that is it.

    March 13, 2013 at 3:21 pm | Report abuse |
  14. Dan

    It is understandable that a person has the right to love whoever or whatever feels like in exeption to situations in which the rights of others are affected, ie individual or public property, or children. What brings me to the point I am trying to make.
    Regardles of adults having rights, there are rights that are iherent to children too. I consider it to be a right that of a child being able to experience influence from a natural father, and a natural mother. We cannot ignore the fact that a Lesbian cannot deliver 100% male guidance to let's say a baby boy, and same a Homosexual man cannot deliver 100% female guidance to a baby girl. So It is okey to choose who you love, but it is not ok to ignore a child's right to have a male and female natural relation in his/her life wheter from natural heterosexual parents, adopted, stepped, or fostered. Admit or not, a Lesbian cannot experience 100% what a man does, and so a Gay man in viceversa. My son for example would never show himself naked to his mother, nor would he discuss male problems with her for more that we try. Forcing to acept that is psychological damage for most kids.

    March 13, 2013 at 1:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "So It is okey to choose who you love, but it is not ok to ignore a child's right to have a male and female natural relation in his/her life wheter from natural heterosexual parents, adopted, stepped, or fostered"

      Decades of research show that the children turn out just fine. Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      Plus you are forgetting today, 1 in 3 children – a total of 15 million – are being raised without a father. Are you going to include them too in your criticism? Probably not because your prejudice only sees gays and lesbians.

      March 13, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • kentuckian

        Damn Really? Been at it for two days! Go seek mental health assistance for all of your problems!

        March 13, 2013 at 2:43 pm | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          Posting facts usually annoy prejudice people. Nice Ad Hominem without any facts included. LOL!

          March 13, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dan

        @Really, you can make all research that you want, but that is physical issue, a woman, lesbian, cannot give orientation to a boy about male body issues because a woman or lesbian does not have thsese organs, I inspect my testicles and I know what I am looking for, a woman, lesbian does not have testicles. Same a man could never understand a woman's organs, hormones, feelings, a gay man cannot teach a little girl how to be a woman. You see that only en TV shows. The issue here is not about sexuality but about parenting. Do you think a Gay man is going to explain a girl he adopted What it feels like to deliver a child? no, never, never ever. Besides, it is enough already about child abuse, kids being cut in religious traditions, or being arranged in adoption without any consideration. My issue is not about gay rights but about child's rights. People think about adopting same as just renting a vehicle. Car has no choice, child has no choice. If a child cannot decide then the logical right he has is to have a female Mother and male Father.

        March 13, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          " I inspect my testicles and I know what I am looking for, a woman, lesbian does not have testicles. Same a man could never understand a woman's organs, hormones, feelings,"

          Your argument is ridiculous. A doctor can help with some of those issues and questions. Plus there are also aunts and uncle or grandfathers and grandmothers, usually involved too in raising a child. You're lame argument also knocks down all the single mothers that are doing a great job raising their children. You can try to justify your prejudice in your own head all you want but you're still wrong. The decades of RESEARCH shows that the children raised by gays and lesbians are the same as straight children in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

          March 13, 2013 at 6:28 pm | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          "If a child cannot decide then the logical right he has is to have a female Mother and male Father."

          Plus just because a child has a "female Mother and male Father." doesn't mean they are actually good parents. In one reason there are so many children in foster care and filling the jails! What you can't comprehend is gays and lesbians do just a good job raising kids too. A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

          Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

          March 13, 2013 at 6:35 pm | Report abuse |
  15. TheWordpressGhost

    Reblogged this on thewordpressghost and commented:
    Why does the media fawn over gay politics and ignore families?

    Almost 2 out of 3 first time marriages are successful.

    Families (traditional families) are the best for raising children.

    Non-traditional family units give children a much higher crime rate ....

    So, are they trying to destroy America? Or, is reporting only the news which affects 3% of the population important. And reporting the news which affects all Americans is not important?

    Which is it?

    Ghost.

    March 13, 2013 at 10:33 am | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "Families (traditional families) are the best for raising children.

      Non-traditional family units give children a much higher crime rate .... "

      Oh please cite your source on this one...if you can, NOT! The divorce rate among straight couples is at 50% so there is no way traditional marriage is all that it is cracked up to be.

      Plus the experts have shown that like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

      Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

      A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

      Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

      March 13, 2013 at 11:02 am | Report abuse |
      • TheWordpressGhost

        No. Research does not support any of your claims.

        Even the President called for pre-k school for children without fathers while he was in Chicago two weeks ago.

        Why wasn't I able to find his speech when I googled his speech? He really slammed the non-traditional failure to our society.

        My data for 66% of first marriages being successful came from the US census data.

        After I blogged on that data a couple years ago, the data 'disappeared.'

        Big brother watching?

        Probably.

        Ghost.

        March 13, 2013 at 11:07 am | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          "No. Research does not support any of your claims."

          That was a direct quote from the research. LMAO! Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

          March 13, 2013 at 11:08 am | Report abuse |
        • TheWordpressGhost

          Then give a source, direct quotes not referenced is usually called, plagiarism ....

          March 13, 2013 at 11:18 am | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          "Then give a source, direct quotes not referenced is usually called, plagiarism "

          I just gave you the source listed above, Duh! Thanks for showing you have poor reading comprehension. LOL!

          March 13, 2013 at 11:33 am | Report abuse |
        • ANonnyMoose

          Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

          March 13, 2013 at 3:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      "Almost 2 out of 3 first time marriages are successful."

      That's why in psychology today they report that statistics have shown that in the U.S. 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 73% of third marriages end in divorce. Guess your number is way off dude. Let's guess your a Christian and a liar.

      March 13, 2013 at 11:07 am | Report abuse |
      • TheWordpressGhost

        Pete, I quoted Census data .... you did not.

        Your source quoted 'past' data. More of the old wives tales – aka, LIES. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201202/the-high-failure-rate-second-and-third-marriages

        If you do not want marriage, then don't do it. But, why

        OH WHY

        If marriage is so bad, do gay people want to be married?

        March 13, 2013 at 11:17 am | Report abuse |
        • Relly?

          "If marriage is so bad, do gay people want to be married?"

          Marriage is a civil right. Those rights are designed to protect their families.

          Those rights include:
          Tax Benefits
          -–Filing joint income tax returns with the I R S and state taxing authorities.
          -–Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
          Estate Planning Benefits
          -–Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
          -–Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
          -–Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
          -–Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse – that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.
          Government Benefits
          -–Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
          -–Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
          -–Receiving public assistance benefits.
          -–Employment Benefits
          -–Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
          -–Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
          -–Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
          -–Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.
          Medical Benefits
          -–Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
          -–Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
          Death Benefits
          -–Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
          -–Making burial or other final arrangements.
          Family Benefits
          -–Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
          -–Applying for joint foster care rights.
          -–Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
          -–Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
          Housing Benefits
          -–Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
          -–Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
          Consumer Benefits
          -–Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
          -–Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
          -–Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
          -–Other Legal Benefits and Protections
          -–Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
          -–Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
          -–Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
          -–Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
          -–Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
          -–Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

          March 13, 2013 at 11:24 am | Report abuse |
        • TheWordpressGhost

          Marriage is defined by Religion all around the world for at least 5,000 years.

          God does not grant civil unions, he ordained marriage and family.

          March 13, 2013 at 11:27 am | Report abuse |
        • TheWordpressGhost

          Now.

          Quote your 'sources' you plagiarized.

          And then tell me WHY I should have to live beside a gay couple?

          What happened to my rights?

          March 13, 2013 at 11:28 am | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          "Marriage is defined by Religion all around the world for at least 5,000 years."

          Here is the U S is a legal binding contract and was declared a civil right by the U S Supreme Court. Religion has no place in our laws which is why we have separation of church and state.

          March 13, 2013 at 11:34 am | Report abuse |
        • Brent

          "Marriage is defined by Religion"

          The term “traditional marriage” is a term employed by anti-gay religious groups and individuals to promote bigotry, prejudice, hostility and discrimination toward gay and lesbian citizens.

          The term is used to justify a social injustice both in terms of denying gay and lesbian individuals equal treatment guaranteed by our Constitution and also denying them human dignity. The use of the term is an action that promotes constitutional unfairness and human indignity and therefore one which is morally wrong.

          If a person of faith agrees that a practice that promotes looking upon a segment of society as inferior, unworthy and undeserving of that which we find as good in our lives, the use of the term “traditional marriage” therefore also must be sinful.

          Regardless of their particular faith, the person would be hard-pressed to say that love, compassion and wanting what is best in our lives for others around us are not the core principles of most religions. When a person of faith stands opposed to those principles, their attitude and actions stand opposed to the principles which they strive to uphold in the everyday interactions with those around them.

          There is also deceit involved in the use of the term “traditional marriage” because those who employ the term attempt to perpetrate an untruth and ulterior motives of hostility and prejudice.

          The untruth comes when “traditional marriage” is offered up as a term that defines a religious concept of a God-blessed union of a young man and woman who fall in love, get married with no prior sexual experience, have children and remain together into old age. They are implying that this is how God ordains marriage.

          If it is, it took him until just 50 years ago to arrive at that conclusion.

          The tradition of marriage in Old Testament times meant the man and his wife could have the same father.

          In the Bible, the patriarch of the Hebrew people, Abraham, and his wife, Sarah, couldn’t have children so Sarah put forth her slave Hagar for Abraham to have children by.

          In Old Testament times, it was normal, sometimes even required for a man to take multiple wives. A man having multiple wives was accepted by the church as late as the 5th Century, 500 years after the teachings set forth in the New Testament. The church for a very long time apparently did not interpret biblical teaching as an edict for one-man, one-woman marriage.

          The tradition of marital unions in the 1700s and 1800s in America doesn’t seem to measure up to God-ordained – especially from the female perspective.

          One third of brides were pregnant at the altar in Concord, Massachusetts during the 20 years prior to the American Revolution.

          In this quote from a wedding couple in 1855, we see that the church had no problem blessing a legal marriage that was considered by many – including this couple – as a violation of the woman’s dignity and civil rights:

          “We believe that personal independence and equal human rights can never be forfeited, except for crime; that marriage should be an equal and permanent partnership, and so recognized by law; that until it is so recognized, married partners should provide against the radical injustice of present laws, by every means in their power…”

          So we can look back and see that religious teachings which uphold the ideals of love, dignity, compassion and respect for each person within marital unions throughout history has taken a back seat.

          In other words, the definition of a God-ordained tradition of marriage has never been constant rather it has evolved.

          History shows us it’s the marital union that should be uplifted…not the evolving traditions of a social institution. In other words, it’s not about how we come together but why.

          Rev. Mark Gallagher, a Unitarian minister, in 2004 asked “what about a marriage could have that quality of spiritual beauty? What makes for sacredness in a marriage?” He names four things.

          “First and foremost, mutual love. A feeling of heightened affection, respect, concern, and appreciation between marital partners. It gives a certain sparkle to the time spent together, and potentially to the entire experience of life. The presence of love makes a marriage sacred.

          “Fidelity contributes to the sacredness of a marriage. Commitments fulfilled. Coming through. Hanging in. Placing the integrity of the relationship over personal preference and convenience. It builds a powerful trust. Fidelity makes a marriage sacred.

          “Intimacy brings sacredness in a marriage. When two people reveal themselves to one another over time, they cannot help but gain acquaintance with the deep regions of the human experience. They get to know one another, of course. But more importantly, they get to know themselves.

          Through relating intimately over time, deeper honesty and authenticity become possible. This is the spiritual journey to know and be known, behind the public charade, however subtle or crude that may be.

          “And forgiveness generates sacredness in a marriage. We all make mistakes and need forgiveness. Our spiritual liberation requires that we become masters of forgiveness letting go of resentment for slights and injuries. The prolonged togetherness of marriage will present myriad opportunities for the practice of forgiveness. When forgiveness flows freely, there is a palpable quality of gentleness and compassion.”

          Does the heterosexual couple uniting in marriage today lift up the union as characterized by love, fidelity, intimacy and forgiveness. We expect they do and we suspect those characteristics as Gallagher concluded in his sermon are what exude sacredness.

          We also know that gay and lesbian couples uphold those same characteristics for their unions. Why would they not? Why would a parent of a gay son or daughter not want their child to enjoy the happiness derived from a lifelong devotion to those characteristics? Why would a brother or sister with a gay sibling not want their brother or sister to enjoy the happiness derived from a lifelong devotion to those characteristics?

          Why would a person of faith not want the gay or lesbian individual to enjoy the happiness derived from the pursuit of marriage sanctity?

          Why would we as Americans not want our government and its laws to recognize that same marriage sanctity for gay and lesbian individuals in their pursuit of liberty and happiness?

          There can be only one reason and that is because many of us have been conditioned by years of misguided church teaching to look upon gay and lesbian individuals as morally inferior, unworthy and therefore undeserving of that which we uphold as good and sanctified in our lives.

          March 13, 2013 at 11:53 am | Report abuse |
        • TheWordpressGhost

          Gay marriage is used to deny Christians their God given rights .... Your ancestors agreed with that. They agreed that the Constitution did NOT discriminate against Christians and for homosexuals ....

          To bad you do not.

          March 13, 2013 at 6:18 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          "Gay marriage is used to deny Christians their God given rights .... Your ancestors agreed with that. They agreed that the Constitution did NOT discriminate against Christians and for homosexuals .... "

          Not in America moron, it's why there is a separation of church and state so bigots like you don't get to discriminate against the minority groups in this country. The constitution also doesn't discriminate against homosexuals either.

          March 14, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • TheWordpressGhost

          Pete,

          You are the bigot. You deny my First Amendment Right to practice Religion.

          Why do you hate Christians so much?

          March 15, 2013 at 1:48 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          "You are the bigot. You deny my First Amendment Right to practice Religion.'

          You're religion is just that a religion and has no place in our laws, it's why we have separation of church and state because we learned from the past religion can be a oppressive and prejudice towards others that don't believe as you do.

          March 15, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Report abuse |
        • TheWordpressGhost

          That is not correct.

          We have everything, because my ancestors died to give you the right to not be persecuted as they were.

          And to prevent you persecuting me.

          Should I do what my ancestors did? Or what you would change us to?

          March 16, 2013 at 11:27 am | Report abuse |
      • Jeff

        According to state four unions site 2011. The American divorce rate today is nearly twice that of 1960, but it has declined since hitting the highest point in our history in the early 1980s. The average couple marrying for the first time now has a lifetime probability of divorce or separation somewhere between 40 and 50 percent.

        March 13, 2013 at 4:28 pm | Report abuse |
  16. Sad

    I feel for Marie. Becky ultimately betrayed her in a way that is morally repulsive. She hurt Marie and she hurt the kids. It's true that the kids may not remember and understand now, but what if they were older when Becky took them away? The kids are the ones who gets hurt the worst, and the partner of the biological mother. If Becky was going to do what she did to Marie, then she should have told her up front, don't get too attached. If anything happens, I can take them away. She let Marie form a bond that will never break in her heart, and then she took the kids and ran giving her no options to have contact with them again. I think Becky is disgusting. She, having been in a gay relationship, should have known what these children meant to Marie and that sometimes laws are wrong. Shame, Becky, shame on you.

    March 13, 2013 at 9:43 am | Report abuse |
  17. Anothermum

    This article is poorly written. I was lost in the first couple of paragraphs and didn't even finish reading it. In one sentence it said Becky could get pregnant and had twins then absolved her parental rights and then it talks adoption. So which is it? Did they biologically have children together or adopt?

    March 13, 2013 at 8:06 am | Report abuse |
    • Jake

      If CNN spelled out the case, then they wouldn't have an outrageous case of 'gay parent denied adoption' story. Gay couple tried to commit adoption fraud to get both partners names on the birth certificate, judge saw thru it and invalidated the adoption. They couldn't do a stepparent adoption so the bio-mom relinquished the babies and re-adopted with her partner. Marie Wolfe is an attorney, she probably thought she could make an end run around the law.

      What CNN really doesn't want to point out is the fact that the children's biological mother had to go to court to argue that the adoption was invalid and fight her partner getting joint custody and visitation. So much for supporting gay rights. If this mother actually believed her partner was the co-parent and was an equal parent of the children, then why didn't she do what many straight couples do and decide on visitation & child support without having to go to a judge and fight it out? Instead she took her biological kids and told her partner to shove off, she had no rights to children who are not biologically related to her. It's no different than a straight boyfriend thinking he could have parental rights to his girlfriend's kids. The adoption was not valid, these are not her children.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:42 am | Report abuse |
  18. Sperm Donor

    I decided that I want to rescind the parental rights I absolved when I jerked off in a cup. I want my kids back!

    March 13, 2013 at 7:53 am | Report abuse |
    • Jake

      Donor conceived children have rights too. Of course, in the US, any talk of the rights of donor conceived children to their biological heritage is seen as homophobic rhetoric by the religious right but the fact is that lesbians and single mothers are the majority of customers at sperm banks. Straight couples have options with IVF that same sex couples obviously do not have.

      The rights of the donor conceived child to know his or her biological parents should not be overruled by the political correctness of gay marriage supporters wanting biological material to create babies with. These are human beings who eventually will want to know who contributed 50% of their DNA. Two men or two women cannot create a child. These children are being born from a man and a woman and they deserver too know who those two people are and not be denied a biological heritage because of the gay rights movement.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:26 am | Report abuse |
      • Really?

        "Two men or two women cannot create a child."

        Actually they do have their own children. The experts have shown that like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

        Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

        A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

        Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

        March 13, 2013 at 8:32 am | Report abuse |
        • Jake

          Gays might make great parents but the majority of children being born to gay parents are donor conceived. Gay rights advocates are so determined to promote their agenda that they completely ignore the rights of the donor conceive children to know their BIOLOGICAL parents. As high and mighty as gays are about equal rights, there's no equal rights for donor conceived children to know where half their DNA comes from.

          Two lesbians cannot have a baby on their own. Children are being denied the chance to know their biological father in order to fulfill the desire of the same sex couple to have a family. Gay couples get to play family. Donor conceived children will never know where half their DNA comes from. Other countries have banned anonymous sperm donors. In the UK, sperm donors have actually gotten visitation to the children they created because the courts recognize the rights of the children to know their biological father.

          The rights of the child to know the biological father and consider the person who contributed half of the child's DNA part of the child's family is being denied because it's politically incorrect to say that a child deserves to know his or her biological parents.

          Go to some of the blogs and websites run by donor conceived children- children from straight couples who have a hole on their heart not knowing how their father is. Adoptees have ways of discovering who their real parents are. For donor conceived children, they may never know who their real father is.

          March 13, 2013 at 8:58 am | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          "completely ignore the rights of the donor conceive children to know their BIOLOGICAL parents. As high and mighty as gays are about equal rights, there's no equal rights for donor conceived children to know where half their DNA comes from. "

          Are you going to use this lame argument against infertile couples too? Probably not. The decades of research has shown that the children of gay parents are just as normal as other kids in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

          Plus the other thing you are forgetting is that the donor can give up his rights by signing them away, and giving the mother full parental rights. If they agree to this, it will not be a problem. If the donor wants to be in the child’s life and there was never an agreement between the two parties, then he would normally be able to. If there is a partner involved, they would be able to adopt the child, but only with the consent of the mother and the donor, or this could be taken to the court to rule on. Most of the time if you are using a "sperm bank" the donor has already given up their parental rights.

          March 13, 2013 at 11:20 am | Report abuse |
        • jake

          Donor conception seems neat and tidy for those desperate to have a child, gay or straight. Eggs and sperm are treated like a medical products by doctors. It's all great until the child grows up and wonders who they are and where they came from.

          I don't have a problem with gay marriage or gay adoption. I do have a problem with gay activist groups attacking adult donor conceived bloggers for voicing their experiences being a donor conceived child because they don't like what they are saying. Lesbians don't have the option of IVF with ICSI like straight couples do. They have to use sperm donors and they like the sperm banks who treat sperm like medical equipment. They want the world to believe that their children will have two mothers and never question who their biological father is or where they came from. Gays are lobbying hard against rules against anonymous sperm donors and any regulation of the sperm bank industry. They don't care that many of these donors have 200+ children. They don't care that their children will never have any answers to their genetic health history. Instead, they want to believe that a child can have two mommies and never question where half their DNA came from.

          March 13, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          "Gays are lobbying hard against rules against anonymous sperm donors and any regulation of the sperm bank industry."

          Please give us a link to the source of this information so we can see if it's really true or not.

          March 13, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Report abuse |
        • Jeff

          Pete it probably has nothing to do with gays and lesbians and more to do with the actual industry, they make billions. The fertility companies gross more than $3.3 billion each year. It's will be like trying to regulate the drug industry, you can bet the fertility companies have lobbyists in congress. Jake won't comprehend that instead he'll go on with his prejudice and bigotry about gays.

          March 13, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Report abuse |
  19. Lisa Webb

    Hey, You know what?! You can't sanction or adjudicate LOVE! These children were born of love. Clearly the non-bio mom loves those kids. She went through all the legal hoop jumping available to her at the time to make this family. It's deplorable that she has no rights.

    It's as laughable to argue that hetero's make better parents as it is to wave the bible around. Didn't they sacrifice children in that book? something about the first born?

    March 13, 2013 at 7:43 am | Report abuse |
  20. Marc

    .....so, the children are with their birth-mother? Doesn't the court generally rule in favor of the mother in straight divorce cases too? How is this any different? Why does she want special treatment?

    Eventually gay folks will have more rights than straight couples. Welcome to America, where "normalcy" is fast becoming criminalized.

    March 13, 2013 at 7:26 am | Report abuse |
    • Lisa Webb

      Marc.... you silly... In a 'straight' divorce the father would indeed have visitation rights. And don't worry, no ones getting 'extra' rights. You're not being short changed dear.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:45 am | Report abuse |
    • Martin Nalor

      Thank God the children are out of this situation in which immorality is viewed as acceptable.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:48 am | Report abuse |
      • Really?

        "Thank God the children are out of this situation in which immorality is viewed as acceptable."

        That's what all prejudice people have said throughout history. The hundreds of thousands of experts have shown that heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

        What is immoral and unacceptable is your uneducated prejudice and bigotry toward this minority group.

        March 13, 2013 at 8:36 am | Report abuse |
        • Lisa Webb

          :)

          March 13, 2013 at 9:02 am | Report abuse |
        • cnam

          guess you don't believe in what the BIBLE say about same sex being together?????

          March 13, 2013 at 9:10 am | Report abuse |
        • James

          "guess you don't believe in what the BIBLE say about same sex being together?????"

          The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.

          March 13, 2013 at 11:22 am | Report abuse |
  21. J

    Lesson to same sex couples who want to adopt in the future...Go to a state where gay marriage is legal.

    March 13, 2013 at 6:59 am | Report abuse |
  22. Squiggy

    The children will be better off with a male and a female as parents.

    March 13, 2013 at 6:58 am | Report abuse |
    • Lana`

      Said no one important named Squiggy.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:54 am | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "The children will be better off with a male and a female as parents."

      Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:40 am | Report abuse |
    • Kyllya

      I can tell you one thing Squiggy...I would much rather have had a loving same sex parents raising me than what I had with my heterosexual ones. Are you really going to tell me it's better for kids to see their father beat the crap out of their mother and hold guns to her head? Because that's how it was in my house. You are kidding yourself.

      March 13, 2013 at 9:18 am | Report abuse |
  23. Anna

    So, you're saying that two people shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else because society won't like it? How about we start with changing society, first, instead of punishing those seeking equality.

    March 13, 2013 at 6:01 am | Report abuse |
    • ElusiveDreamer

      I agree that to take a child away from someone due to their being gay is the utmost cruel thing one can do to any parent. I truely believe that visitation in this case could have been given, unless the parent was abusive, violent or causing the children any type of harm. Loving a child gay or not being a parent gay or not is what this was all about, the children should not be denied both...even if it was a straight couple a father or mother should not be made to suffer without their kids. It's a sad thing that we as a society should make anyone suffer in such a way, this was morally wrong, profoundly wrong a as a citizen of the united states took rights away from the person whom you took these children from. It's not about religion, it's about the complete fact this woman paid to have the other woman pregnant, was there for the birth of theses babies, raised them with the other woman as a parent! You have no right to take that away from any human being gay or NOT!

      March 13, 2013 at 6:41 am | Report abuse |
  24. GRENVILLE DCRUZ

    no Man on Earth in the past and that is yet to come, can change the institution of GOD's creation of human beings from the beginning of time. pls, read Genesis: chapter 2. verse 18 to 24. God created MAN & WOMEN to be united together through holy matrimony. and they both will become one flesh.. this is his word, and his words stands forever. and the same can never be altered, by any one on Earth... remember apart from this institution, that GOD instituted..for man GETTING MARRIED TO A WOMAN.. apart from this everything fails...

    March 13, 2013 at 5:56 am | Report abuse |
    • Eddy Henderson

      Please don't eat shrimp because the bible says its an abomination.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:04 am | Report abuse |
      • Lana`

        genius! :)

        March 13, 2013 at 7:55 am | Report abuse |
    • Tends2defy

      GRENVILLE DCRUZ

      no Man on Earth in the past and that is yet to come, can change the institution of GOD's creation of human beings from the beginning of time. pls, read Genesis: chapter 2. verse 18 to 24. God created MAN & WOMEN to be united together through holy matrimony. and they both will become one flesh.. this is his word, and his words stands forever. and the same can never be altered, by any one on Earth... remember apart from this institution, that GOD instituted..for man GETTING MARRIED TO A WOMAN.. apart from this everything fails...

      You Do realize however, when you stated that no man can change the institution of God, that Man, wrote that bible? I know, hard to believe. but it's true, man wrote that bible. Man wrote many other other religious texts too. But we should hold all of society to the rules and morals of this one particular Bible. And Who gets to decide which religion is the one and true? you? the president? Congress, the courts? Are you willing to give up your right to choose how you live based on what the few say? Live how you want. But Don't require others to prescribe to what You think is right...

      Freedom is more than just choosing in what you believe in, It's choosing how you live your life too. Of course If God were to reveal himself to our us and our government and put to rest the question of Which religion is right, and what morals are the correct ones to live by, I along with many others I would assume would be more than happy to accept anything he has to say on how we should live. But until that day comes, it's more than just wrong that Government tells us what to do in our own personal lives. It's down right unacceptable.

      PS. A Jealous God as people like to say he is, can't be all that too jealous when their are many forms of religions that predate Christianity. I'm just saying, It would seem to me that He would give us something more to go on then one more Bible amongst many other religious texts with nothing more than a popularity contest to decide which one is true.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:44 am | Report abuse |
      • GRENVILLE DCRUZ

        God created Man, in his own image and likeness, to worship him for ever, and be depended on him, but Man sinned. because he chosed, to disobey God. and wanted to be independent. for this reason many have gone astray. but those who obey his commandment lives forever. (not the physical death.) and those who disobey his commandments. die physically and spiritually. may the Lord Jesus Christ touch our Hearts and bring Knowledge,wisdom and understanding, to those who are willing to receive his salvation and turn from our Sins. Jesus Christ our Lord. is merciful and ready to forgive us all from all our sins. Amen!.

        March 14, 2013 at 3:39 am | Report abuse |
        • Melvin

          "Knowledge,wisdom and understanding, to those who are willing to receive"

          The Scriptures at no point deal with homosexuality as an authentic sexual orientation, a given condition of being. The remarkably few Scriptural references to "homosexuality" deal rather with homosexual acts, not with homosexual orientation. Those acts are labeled as wrong out of the context of the times in which the writers wrote and perceived those acts to be either nonmasculine, idolatrous, exploitative, or pagan. The kind of relationships between two consenting adults of the same sex demonstrably abounding among us - relationships that are responsible and mutual, affirming and fulfilling - are not dealt with in the Scriptures.

          March 14, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Lana`

      Well it's interesting that "God" originally "planned" for woman and man not to have any children – he said not to eat that "apple". So basically he had in mind a brotherly or sisterly, if you choose, relation between man and woman.
      Also it's funny how gullible people have to be to believe everything some men wrote in a book thousands of years ago... Also you know, there no mention of daughters of Adam and Eve.. How in the world they reproduced? Wait a second.. wow – Eve was a dirty, sex driven lady.. or was it her fault men couldn't help it since she was was walking all plump and naked in the gardens? Hmm....
      You know, I have no problems with people having faith but I have problem with people being hypocrites and spreading their ignorance. People like you are poison to humanity's intellectual progress.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:08 am | Report abuse |
      • sue ann

        You prove this point: Atheist with 2 brain cells? Pregnant. You did not get one fact correct on Biblical interpretation. Better to not comment on something you know absolutely nothing about. I felt ashamed for you when I read your post.

        March 13, 2013 at 11:00 am | Report abuse |
    • John

      "God created MAN & WOMEN to be united together through holy matrimony. "

      Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

      Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

      There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

      Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

      Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

      Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

      That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:42 am | Report abuse |
    • Fanaticism is the true evil

      To all those who believe that the bible is "God's word," I have a huge wake up call for you. The bible was written and interpreted by man. If God had written it, or intended to write it, it would be emblazoned in the sky, or etched somewhere in nature, someplace we could all see and that would be indestructible. For the power of God knows no bounds.

      To all those who believe in the story of Adam and Eve: take a biology class. It's scientifically impossible. Not to mention that the story of the apple and the basis for "the Garden of Eden" go far before the origins of Christianity. In many stories, it is a golden apple and it is forbidden because it grants immortality.

      Third, and most importantly, this should not be a matter of religion. It should be a matter of human rights. Everyone has the right to be a parent. Marie loved those children and she was their mother. Just the same as an adopted mother is a mother to their adopted child. It is not fair or just that she, or the children be denied access to one another.

      March 14, 2013 at 8:13 pm | Report abuse |
  25. ZysPsyk

    To quote The Simpsons, "Ha ha".

    March 13, 2013 at 5:07 am | Report abuse |
    • Ocie

      You wouldn't happen to know a "Hugh Jass" I guess :)

      March 13, 2013 at 8:56 am | Report abuse |
  26. Peter Wolfe

    The preliminary research shows the equivalent in parenting outcomes with homosexual vs hetrosexual outcomes with children so that isn't true that homosexuals are inherently flawed in parenting. In fact, lesbians have many indicators of being better in education than hetrosexuals but there could be other reasons for it either socioeconomics or whatever to account for it. I don't view homosexuality as being abnormal just different normal not abnormal at all. BTW: I'm a loving uncle who loves his neices but the "Normal" father won't even allow me to talk to them so isn't that abnormal for you?

    March 13, 2013 at 5:00 am | Report abuse |
  27. Jake

    One mother is the biological mother, one isn't. Biological bonds are stronger than a piece of paper saying a child is adopted. The children certainly know who is their biological mother and who isn't. Soon it won't be about gay adoption it will be the age old problem in custody cases where the kids do not want to be taken away from the mother that has raised them.

    All of this would be moot if the biological mother would agree to joint custody and visitation. Obviously, she does not want to share custody with her former spouse. Judges care a lot more about why a biological mother does not trust a non-related spouse than anything else. Adoption or not, if bio-mom says no, judges aren't going to do jack squat.

    March 13, 2013 at 4:58 am | Report abuse |
    • Anna

      Flawed logic. Biology doesn't make someone a good parent.

      March 13, 2013 at 5:57 am | Report abuse |
      • RG

        People are people, and if you have the desire to become a parent – then it matters not what your sexuality is. However, to me – the most disgusting part of the story is that Becky gave up ALL parental rights under the court of law and then took these children. That is horrific. The wrong parent got these beautiful child and Michigan needs to come into this century with their laws, fake laws and bylaws.

        March 13, 2013 at 6:57 am | Report abuse |
    • Tends2defy

      It might be flawed logic. But at least he's making his argument based on whats good for the children and who may or may not have legitimate claims to parental rights. I'm of the mind that if the children started out with two parents. Then the children should end up with two parents. regardless of whether the parents are straight or not. It's simply not fair to terminate parental rights based on someone ELSE 's view on marriage.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:52 am | Report abuse |
    • JP

      Responding to your comment "Biological bonds are stronger than a piece of paper saying a child is adopted. The children certainly know who is their biological mother and who isn't."

      Not correct – I grew up with two fantastic parents who obtianed me via 'a piece of a paper' – I had no clue who my biological mother was and when I did trace her at 18 we had absolutely no bond at all.

      I am thankful every waking day for that 'piece of paper'...

      March 13, 2013 at 12:44 pm | Report abuse |
  28. Paul

    With all respect gay people deserve, I believe a child should be raise by a mother and a father. My opinion does not have anything to do with religion but it has to do with how your children could get affected by an abnormal relationship. Maybe in another 50 years more it would be OK for gay parents to adopt a child but as of today it could ruin a children's life.

    March 13, 2013 at 3:54 am | Report abuse |
    • Aud

      I'm a 32 year old (straight) woman. Being raised by 2 dads didn't ruin MY life.

      March 13, 2013 at 4:31 am | Report abuse |
      • Sarah

        I don't know that it's a matter of whether or not two females or two males can raise a child together, obviously they can and with love. But, with today's society and how the majority of the public view homsexuality, the strong religous feelings, bullying, children trying to "fit in" with their peers, etc... Is it fair to assume that a child adopted to a homosexual couple will be exposed to added pressures from society – heavy, taboo added presures, pressure to conceal their family and not draw attention. I would feel badly for the adopted children that aren't able to handle the extra burdeon.

        March 13, 2013 at 5:07 am | Report abuse |
        • Megan

          That's the same logic that people used to use to criticize and deny interracial marriages. I can understand the concern, but if people just have to sit around waiting for society to accept them before having children, it's going to be really, really slow going. Very few major shifts in societal perception were achieved by just sitting and waiting it out. Women's suffrage and civil rights didn't just wait around for it to happen; sometimes you've got to make a lot of noise to get the injustices being done to you noticed. What'll probably happen is that in 50 years the younger generation will look back on these times, just like they do with the times when women were essentially chattel and African Americans were 3/5ths of a person and wonder how we could be so ignorant and judgemental, but unless people actively stand up and speak out against these things, that time may never come.

          March 13, 2013 at 7:19 am | Report abuse |
        • Steve

          Yeah, it's mindboggling how exact same arguments used against interracial marriage are trotted out against now.

          From Perez v Sharp (which removed anti-miscegenation laws in California in 1948):
          "Respondent maintains that Negroes are socially inferior and have so been judicially recognized and that the progeny of a marriage between a Negro and a Caucasian suffer not only the stigma of such inferiority but the fear of rejection by members of both races. If they do, the fault lies not with their parents, but with the prejudices in the community and the laws that perpetuate those prejudices by giving legal force to the belief that certain races are inferior. If miscegenous marriages can be prohibited because of tensions suffered by the progeny, mixed religious unions could be prohibited on the same ground."

          March 13, 2013 at 5:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • JT

      The problem with this line of thought is that you are deciding that all men and women that are coupled up are normal. That is just insane. A parental group can be just as messed up by being a man and a woman and just as abnormal. So are you going to start deciding that they have to be a man and a woman where the man goes to work and the woman stays home? Or is it just the standards your parents set? Even though my parents may be completely different? Opinions on what is best is great and all, but they should not be law. Just like I can't tell a parent what their child can or can't watch on tv, or can or can't eat. Why can you say what is normal.?

      March 13, 2013 at 4:42 am | Report abuse |
    • Jake

      In 50 years, the US will join the rest of the civilized world banning anonymous sperm donation. Courts in the UK recently granted a sperm donor visitation with the child he helped create for a lesbian couple. The courts ruled the child's rights to know his/her own father is more important than the lesbian mothers' rights to block the sperm donor from contacting the child. Canada, UK and Australia have all banned anonymous sperm donors. Children there have a right to know who their biological father is when they turn 18. Two women cannot produce a child on their own. These children have a biological father and the child's right to that father should not be ignored out of political correctness.

      Just as closed adoption has become a thing of the past, soon the idea of anonymous uninvolved fathers donating genetic material will be a thing of the past. Too many donor conceived children are online giving a voice to the children who are denied a father.

      March 13, 2013 at 5:11 am | Report abuse |
    • RG

      Paul, although you are entitled to your beliefs – we are segregating an entire population of people and not allowing them to raise children – that isn't right. Based upon your reasoning – then single parents are "flawed" (both if raised by a mom, dad, grandparent, aunt, uncle...) – a family is where a child, siblings, and parent(s) are safe, loved, and taught to become a decent part of society for when it's their turn to choose to be a parent or not......I think we all need to be tolerant of and respectful of the definition of family.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:03 am | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      " I believe a child should be raise by a mother and a father. My opinion does not have anything to do with religion but it has to do with how your children could get affected by an abnormal relationship. "

      The experts have shown their relationships are NOT abnormal. Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

      Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

      A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

      Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:46 am | Report abuse |
  29. jay

    So if there is no God, as most would like to believe...Why simple, you can make up any rules and morals you want...Hence the downfall of the world...What's next? If Atheists are successful in removing God from this world...well I think the Bible has a story about that...sodom and gomorrah,
    Divine judgment by Yahweh was then passed upon Sodom and Gomorrah along with two other neighboring cities that were completely consumed by fire and brimstone. Neighboring Zoar (Bela) was the only city to be spared during that day of judgment.[Deut.29:23][Gen.10:19] In Abrahamic traditions, Sodom and Gomorrah have become synonymous with impenitent sin, and their fall with a proverbial manifestation of God's wrath.[4][5][Jude 1:7] Sodom and Gomorrah have been used as metaphors for vice and homosexuality viewed as a deviation. The story has therefore given rise to words in several languages, including the English word sodomy, used in so-called sodomy laws to describe a sexual "crime against nature" consisting of anal and/or oral sex, either homosexual or heterosexual.[6]

    March 13, 2013 at 3:48 am | Report abuse |
    • Megan

      Well, to be fair Jay, that same passage about homosexuality being a sin is kinda sandwiched in with wearing blended fabric and eating shrimp. I'm a Christian myself, but I have a really hard time justifying the demonization of a group of people based solely on the fact that they live a lifestyle that would be considered an 'abominiation' by a book of the Bible that would basically consider most people today's lifestyle just as much of an abomination. So as far as me and my religious beliefs are concerned, gay couples have just as much right to be happy, get married and have children as anyone else does. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go make myself a plate of bacon wrapped shrimp puffs while wearing a poly cotton blend tee shirt as a show of my solidarity. If you're going to pick on one group because of something in the Old Testatment, you've gotta apply that brush across the board.

      March 13, 2013 at 7:26 am | Report abuse |
    • Kimberly

      "I think the Bible has a story about that...sodom and gomorrah,"

      It is helpful to post both passages of Jude, 1:6 and 1:7 together, as they are meant to be read this way.

      New International Version (NIV)
      6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

      Note that the humans are exhibiting the same behaviors as the angels. Note, also, that the sexual immorality and perversion mentioned isn't homosexuality. Scholars who have studied this passage have concluded that the perversion alluded to is actually rape, which was rampant.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:49 am | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      Hey Jay so did your god just send fire and brimstone over Russia recently or what. What is funny is you didn't see any of them offering their virgin daughters to the crowd. Now why would someone offer their virrgin daughters to people that are gay, because it wasn't about being gay it was about rarpe since the men where straight! What an idiot.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:53 am | Report abuse |
  30. North Dallas Don

    The bigger story appears to be the ridiculously high rate of divorce among gay couples. Do any of them stay together for more than five years?

    March 13, 2013 at 1:53 am | Report abuse |
    • GetLoss

      They will pretend they do but we all know they don't last more than five years.

      March 13, 2013 at 2:01 am | Report abuse |
    • Kevin

      50% of marriages end up in divorce. Gays break up just like straight couples do.

      March 13, 2013 at 2:10 am | Report abuse |
      • Squiggy

        Most female gay relationships last about four years. Proven. Male gay relationships are not monogamous, nor is there any intent. Gay marriage is a misnomer; frankly. it is a joke.

        March 13, 2013 at 7:00 am | Report abuse |
        • Joe

          Squiggy you're an idiot! Half of all straight couples divorce so what does this say about those marriages? Are they a joke as well?

          March 13, 2013 at 7:25 am | Report abuse |
    • sam

      50% of straight couples divorce...what shall we do?

      March 13, 2013 at 2:14 am | Report abuse |
    • Meaningless Drivel

      Presumably you have a time machine that has allowed you to travel far enough into the future to a time when statistics for gay marriage exist?

      March 13, 2013 at 2:38 am | Report abuse |
    • Texas Anne

      Don't know where you got your statistics, but about half of all heterosexual marriages end up in divorce.
      I have a gay nephew who has been with his partner for 18 years now & they're raising 3 beautiful children who might otherwise not have a loving home & caring parents. BTW, note that number– EIGHTEEN YEARS. That certainly beats most straight marriages.

      March 13, 2013 at 2:52 am | Report abuse |
    • Dallas Lepky

      But we've been told that gays are supposedly BETTER at marriage than straights... A lie!

      March 13, 2013 at 3:26 am | Report abuse |
    • Eli

      Oh, noes! Gay divorce is destroying the sanctity of hetero divorce!

      March 13, 2013 at 4:35 am | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "The bigger story appears to be the ridiculously high rate of divorce among gay couples. Do any of them stay together for more than five years?"

      Guess you haven't been reading the news lately, most of the couples trying to get married where together between 12 – 38 years. Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

      March 13, 2013 at 8:56 am | Report abuse |
    • Bre

      Well, for what it's worth against your argument, both of my mom's (biological and step) have been together a lot longer than my mother and father were. Though they did not adopt or have anymore kids after getting together (I think they thought me and my three siblings were enough), at this time we're all grown up, and if they decided to separate for whatever reason, we would still be involved in both of their lives just the same. But I don't foresee that happening between them.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:11 pm | Report abuse |
  31. MrsJ

    At the end of the day, we are still animals. We're just "smart" enough to make rules and laws to go against our natural behaviors.

    For the Bible thumpers, you can whine and cry all day about how it's against "God's Word" but who wrote the Bible? Typical Christian response is "God." Wrong. Man wrote the Bible. They just "claimed" God told them what to write. I could do the same thing and be called a lunatic. Yeah... Lunatics wrote the Bible!

    March 13, 2013 at 1:31 am | Report abuse |
    • GetLoss

      It could have been worst, atheists could have written it.

      March 13, 2013 at 1:38 am | Report abuse |
      • MrsJ

        It would of been a shorter book with a lot less fairy tales.

        March 13, 2013 at 1:47 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Or it would have most likely been the fairytale of an anal paradise where everyone is a poop with wings.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:52 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I like turtles

          March 13, 2013 at 2:15 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I like gay turtles.

          March 13, 2013 at 4:09 am | Report abuse |
    • JC

      @ GET LOSS\

      YOU NEED JESUS

      March 13, 2013 at 1:44 am | Report abuse |
    • Lukey P

      You know most (all) kids come from a father and a mother. Some end up with just a mother and some with just a father. Two mothers or two fathers is different, not normal.. Aside from the basic necessities the little people just need love. I don't doubt that two moms or two dads can't give enough love to a little person but I would wonder how that little person would feel about it when they're grown up.. Either way that's a sad story. I can't imagine losing one of my kids like that.. not only did she lose her kids but was raked through the ringer and hung to dry. Hard to understand how someone could be so cold hearted.. Their day will come.

      March 13, 2013 at 1:59 am | Report abuse |
    • He ain't my sheppard

      The King James Bible, the Bible most new versions of the Bible; NIV, The New Standard Bible etc. was written to for the approval of King James. King Henry VIII broke away from the Catholic Church and started the Church of England and King James ordered the third version of the bible after the first two versions didn't suit him. Anyone can say the Bible was written two thousand years ago when actually, the version that everyone follows, the King James version, was written only 500 years ago to make the king happy.

      March 13, 2013 at 3:07 am | Report abuse |
    • jay

      who inspired man to write the Bible...God...no one said you had to believe in the God, just take the lessons from the Bible as an owners manual for human beings...If you hate something you do not understand, what does that say about you...The Bible doesn't say to hate gays, it just says its a sin, Realize you can love a person and not have sex with them...Realize having any form of Sex is a choice...Some people have zero sex, some have sex with many people at the same time, some have it with dead people, some have it with animals...So if there is no God, and no sin, well enjoy then...I will on the other hand live my life so i may be able to sleep at night...

      March 13, 2013 at 3:24 am | Report abuse |
      • Melvin

        "The Bible doesn't say to hate gays, it just says its a sin"

        No it doesn't. The Scriptures at no point deal with homosexuality as an authentic sexual orientation, a given condition of being. The remarkably few Scriptural references to "homosexuality" deal rather with homosexual acts, not with homosexual orientation. Those acts are labeled as wrong out of the context of the times in which the writers wrote and perceived those acts to be either nonmasculine, idolatrous, exploitative, or pagan. The kind of relationships between two consenting adults of the same sex demonstrably abounding among us - relationships that are responsible and mutual, affirming and fulfilling - are not dealt with in the Scriptures.

        March 13, 2013 at 8:59 am | Report abuse |
  32. Stephen

    Despite the argument over whether base law should be based on religion and sins, or not; making it illegal for someone to commit a "sin" does not help in terms of what the Bible desires. Sin is about choice and what is in someone's heart. When you are judged on your final day, it will be based on what is in your heart and will not be based on what you could or could not legally do. God gave everyone the right to choose whether to commit sin, just as he gave people the right of free speech in America to preach or whatever you want to do with it. He did not give you the right to forcibly stop someone from committing what is believed to be a sin. In a sense, you have stripped God's children of their free will, which he gave them. By doing this, you are in turn, committing a sin and stopping His process.
    If I want to have a homosexual relationship and attempt to do so, and you tie me down until I die and prevent me from doing it. Am I really a different person? Am I really more deserving of being in heaven because of a choice you made? As a Christian, you have a right to preach His word and inform others if you feel they are unknowingly committing a sin. As a Christian, you do not have a right to live someone else's life for him. Please stop all of this nonsense of creating earthly laws based on scripture you read in the Bible.

    March 13, 2013 at 1:22 am | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      Stephen – Well said!!

      March 13, 2013 at 1:29 am | Report abuse |
    • Whoa

      You really think God judges? Do you have any idea just how GREAT GOD'S LOVE IS? ANY? MEN judge....God is so far beyond our way of thinking that this world is but an illusion..... WAKE UP...

      March 13, 2013 at 1:30 am | Report abuse |
      • Stephen

        please stop littering the comments section with your newly acquired copy and paste technology ... we recognized what you believe the first time you posted it... also the caps is pretty gross

        March 13, 2013 at 1:47 am | Report abuse |
  33. ramon

    For the new poeple postin here. For those that claim to be Christians and have no knowledge of Christianity regarding homosexuality, and for unbelievers that do not know what God said regarding this subject, and for homosexuals to repent and come home to the Lord: Romans 1
    21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
    28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

    March 13, 2013 at 12:15 am | Report abuse |
    • sam

      You already posted this, and it's still bad. BAD RAMON NO COOKIE.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:17 am | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      Ramon – Paul's letter to the Romans needs to be read in context in order to understand what it is really saying. In Romans 1:21-28, Paul talks about people who refused to acknowledge and glorify God (v. 21), the worshipping of idols (v23), people who were more interested in earthly pursuits than spiritual pursuits (v.25), people who gave up their natural, innate passion for the opposite sex in search of pleasure (v. 26-27), and people who live lives full of covetousness, malice, envy, and hatred of God (v. 29-31).

      Homosexuality is a natural part of human sexuality (for verification, check out the APA website). This reference is talking about heterosexual people who gave up their natural orientation to have sex with people of the same gender in what Paul calls, "Their search for pleasure." It is not talking about gay people who naturally are attracted to people of the same gender.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:19 am | Report abuse |
      • ramon

        Hi, here is more scripture to help you understand in context what is being said.
        Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
        And Romans 1 at the very end: God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

        March 13, 2013 at 12:42 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          Ramon – Hello! You quoted Leviticus as condemning homosexuality because the Scripture says, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is an abomination." As a gay man, I do not have sex with women, I have sex with men. Thus, I do not lie with mankind as with womankind. This Scripture was not intended to condemn homosexuality.

          By the way, Leviticus also forbids wearing clothes made of two fabrics and says we should stone children who disrespect their parents. You had better check your closet and supply of stones.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:44 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Don't forget how Levitcus also condemns shellfish. Do you like shrimp? Have you ever been to Red Lobster? You're screwed.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:51 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sam if you are so aware of what is written in the bible,then why don't you help your Pmdww2 friend with the question about if homosexuality is an abomination or not in the bible?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:57 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          You mean that bullshit throwaway quote from the OT? That was for the Jews. There's nothing in the new testament about it, you poser.

          I know a lot more about the bible than you do, punkin'. You have a long way to go. God sees you. Better shape up.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:00 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – You have yet to cite a verse that condemns homosexuality. In fact, you do not cite sources to back up any of the facts in your statements. Could that be because you pulled them out of your a–?

          March 13, 2013 at 1:02 am | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          Search for the word toevah – the word translated as abomination. It's no longer so clear, and many scholars agree. It can mean ritually unclean or an abomination in such a context as a cultural abomination like dogs as food or the consumption of monkey brains. For those born into US culture, these would be ctural taboos to us that we might aptly call an abomination, to us that is.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:05 am | Report abuse |
        • ramon

          Hi pmdww2, it is nice to talk to you, thank you for telling me you are gay. Here was the law that God gave to his people back then, it was some kind of government. Here is some more verses to understand in context what the Lord is talking about here and in Romans 1.
          10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
          11 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his father’s wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
          12 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
          13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
          14 “‘If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
          15 “‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:08 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          So much has been translated and re-translated to suit the agenda of whoever was in power at the time that it's no longer possible to know the heart of what was written. I hate it that everyone tries to make it all say whatever they want.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:10 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Here is the perfect example of what an atheist about. They insist for someone to cite a verse from the bible and then they turn around and say the bible had been modified over the years. Nice try atheists but your logic fail to pass my test. You are very predictable.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:18 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Thank your granddad for donating that plaid button-up shirt
          'Cause right now I'm up in here stuntin'
          I'm at the Goodwill, you can find me in the (Uptons)
          I'm not, I'm not sick of searchin' in that section (Uptons)
          Your grammy, your aunty, your momma, your mammy
          I'll take those flannel zebra jammies, second-hand, I rock that motherfucker
          The built-in onesie with the socks on that motherfucker
          I hit the party and they stop in that motherfucker
          They be like, "Oh, that Gucci – that's hella tight."
          I'm like, "Yo – that's fifty dollars for a T-shirt."

          March 13, 2013 at 1:20 am | Report abuse |
        • ramon

          Hi Sam, You can read the Bible before any translation in the original language:
          http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Lev&c=20&v=1&t=KJV#conc/20

          And if a man h376 איש 'iysh

          shall lie h7901 שכב shakab

          with his uncle's wife, h1733 דודה dowdah

          he hath uncovered h1540 גלה galah

          his uncle's h1730 דוד dowd

          nakedness: h6172 ערוה `ervah

          they shall bear h5375 נשא nasa'

          their sin; h2399 חטא chet'

          they shall die h4191 מות muwth

          childless. h6185 ערירי `ariyriy

          March 13, 2013 at 1:21 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Limited edition, let's do some simple addition
          Fifty dollars for a T-shirt – that's just some ignorant bitch (shit)
          I call that getting swindled and pimped (shit)
          I call that getting tricked by a business
          That shirt's hella dough
          And having the same one as six other people in this club is a hella don't
          Peep game, come take a look through my telescope
          Trying to get girls from a brand? Man you hella won't
          Man you hella won't

          March 13, 2013 at 1:22 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Ramon...you're posting above your pay grade.

          The word arsenokoitai (ἀρσενοκοῖται) in verse 9 has challenged scholars for centuries, and has been variously rendered as "abusers of themselves with mankind" (KJV), "sodomites" (YLT), or "men who practice homosexuality" (NIV). Greek ἄῤῥην / ἄρσην [arrhēn / arsēn] means "male", and κοίτην [koitēn] "bed," with a sexual connotation.[35] Paul's use of the word in 1 Corinthians is the earliest example of the term; its only other use is in a similar list of wrongdoers given (possibly by the same author) in 1 Timothy 1:8–11:

          8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for arsenokoitai, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.(1 Timothy 1:8–11 NIV)[36]

          In later Christian literature the word appears in the writings of 6th-century Patriarch John IV of Constantinople. In a passage dealing with sexual misconduct, he speaks of arsenokoitia as active or passive and says that "many men even commit the sin of arsenokoitia with their wives". Although the constituent elements of the compound word refer to sleeping with men, he obviously does not use it to mean homosexual intercourse and appears to employ it for anal intercourse, not generic hoOther scholars have interpreted malakoi and arsenokoitai as referring to weakness and effeminacy, or to the practice of exploitative pederasty.[38][39]

          PS: "Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world but that the world, through Him, might be saved." John 3:17

          March 13, 2013 at 1:36 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          You are a godless fool.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:37 am | Report abuse |
      • pmdww2

        Ramon – Hey! It is good to talk with you, too. When I talk about putting Scripture in cultural and historical context and reading is using reason, I am talking about how the Bible is interpreted. The Bible is the spiritual history of the Hebrew and early Christian communities. It is inspired by God, but written by men who were influenced by the culture around them. It was never meant to be interpreted literally. Jesus did not interpret Scripture literally. If he did, he would have stoned the woman caught in adultery and would not have allowed his apostles to pick wheat on the Sabbath. Jesus interpreted Scripture using reason and compassion. Using reason to understand the cultural influences in the Bible is what allows us to differentiate between cultural norms which no longer apply and spiritual truths which do. If we did not use reason when reading and interpreting Scripture, people would still use Scripture to defend slavery.

        March 13, 2013 at 1:17 am | Report abuse |
        • ramon

          Hi pmdww2,
          Jesus came to show us we were sinners in need of salvation:
          27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 3
          Jesus did not come to abolish or destroy the old testament law either:
          17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them
          And most importantly Jesus did not come to judge or apply the law but to save:
          17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:36 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          Ramon – I have enjoyed debating Scripture with you. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree as I need to go to bed. Take care and God bless!

          March 13, 2013 at 1:38 am | Report abuse |
        • ramon

          I should do the same. Have a good one.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:52 am | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      I feel left out. You never responded before, so here it is again...

      Ramon,

      The trouble here is we Christians don’t agree. That’s why we shouldn’t be introducing elements of our beliefs into the common laws of society. There are commonalities that all can generally agree upon (society and various sects of Christianity or other faiths for that matter). For the rest, why should I expect someone who doesn’t share my beliefs to live by them?

      Do we really want to put the Catholics in control of birth control? Maybe the Mormons and the Southern Baptists could jointly start the new war on drugs and keep out the alcohol, caffeine, and cigarettes. Seriously, think about that proposition and what you imply by quoting the bible in the context of the common laws.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:30 am | Report abuse |
      • pmdww2

        trizzy – Well said!

        March 13, 2013 at 12:32 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          You're not a christian Pmdww2, you are in fact an atheist.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:58 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – Luckily, you do not get to decide who is a Christian and who isn't.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:04 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Maybe not, but i know an atheist when i see one.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:19 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – And I know someone who is talking out of his a– when I see him.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:24 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Nice to see you talking about yourself Pmdww2 lol.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:26 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – This is the last time I will respond to you. I pray that God opens your mind so you can see that all love is from God, and that God loves all of His children, gay and straight, just as they are. Take care and God bless.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:34 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Pwdww2 for the last time, you are not a christian, you are an atheist and gay with that. lol

          March 13, 2013 at 1:36 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          GetLoss, your god sees you and will deal with you as he sees fit. In the mean time, fuck off.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:39 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Hey Sam, since when do you believe in God? That's something new.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:44 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          You are a child and a fool, GetLoss. And kind of a boring, repetitive troll. Get a better hobby.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:47 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sorry for having to repeat myself often Sam, i had no other choices since you're not to fast at understanding what people are telling you. lol

          March 13, 2013 at 1:54 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I like turtles lol

          March 13, 2013 at 2:17 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I like gay turtles.

          March 13, 2013 at 4:11 am | Report abuse |
      • ramon

        I will post this again. A Christian is a person that follows Christianity, which means the teaching of Christ and the Bible. If you do not follow it and believe it you are not a Chrsitian.

        March 13, 2013 at 12:55 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          Ramon – You don't get to decide who is Christian and who isn't.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:56 am | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          This still doesn't answer the question. I understand you profess Christianity and the Bible.

          Step outside the box for a moment and think about whether or not that demands that you must enforce those beliefs on those who do not share your views. To be honest, the religious debate has little to do with the argument. What's really critical is whether any faith has business imposing the results of those beliefs on society as a whole. Will you stand up for the Muslim next year who wants to impose elements of their faith on society through the law? This isn't different, but I'd be willing to bet big money that this would throw all kinds of Christian action networks into action. The lobbies would be running full force and congress wouldn't have a free phone line available.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:17 am | Report abuse |
        • Stephen

          That actually is not true. A very common expression in Christian sects like mine (Southern Baptist) is a "Christian who has fallen from Grace." This is referring to a Christian who is currently embracing a sinful lifestyle. It is not called a "former Christian who has fallen from grace," because a Christian is someone who believes in and has accepted Jesus Christ into his heart. If someone tells a lie, he is not suddenly no longer a Christian. If someone murders, he is not suddenly expelled from Christianity. If someone curses at God because he is currently having a tough time and let his anger get the best of him, he is indeed still a Christian. Please try to be productive with these posts and not just make things up. It was even said in the Bible that no one can lead a sin free life (because of Original sin, not to mention temptation) and that is why God sent his Son. What you are saying is simply not true.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:41 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I like turtles

          March 13, 2013 at 2:21 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I like gay turtles.

          March 13, 2013 at 4:11 am | Report abuse |
    • Whoa

      You really think God judges? Do you have any idea just how GREAT GOD'S LOVE IS? ANY? MEN judge....God is so far beyond our way of thinking that this world is but an illusion..... WAKE UP...

      March 13, 2013 at 1:33 am | Report abuse |
    • Ricky

      Ramon – the bible is just a book written by man. God is just like Santa Claus, – a nice story, but not real. Let gay people live their lives in peace. I'm straight, and I would not like gay people telling me that I shouldn't like women. Thus, I practice the golden rule – which you believe to be divine – and do not do unto others what I don't want others do to me. Gay people marrying gay people has not effect what so ever in straight people. If a law is the only thing that will keep you straight, you have other problems to face my friend. ler them marry, have kids, and be happy; you worry about your own life.

      March 13, 2013 at 2:28 am | Report abuse |
  34. LLort_is_my_Shepherd

    It is heartening to read about judges that are not afraid to the right thing. I hope at least the 5 supreme court justices that still believe in God will do the same thing when they uphold DOMA. Remember homosexuality is just not a sin but an abomination

    March 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      Okay here we go again

      Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      March 12, 2013 at 11:56 pm | Report abuse |
      • Eric

        It's normal only to freaks who have deluded themselves into thinking it's normal. It's not normal – it's a mental illness.

        March 13, 2013 at 12:19 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          Eric – Professional mental health associations state that homosexuality is normal. I think I will trust their statements over your opinion.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:21 am | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          As hominem attacks offer nothing to the discussion in one way or the other. Offer something to the conversation as to why you believe what you do.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:21 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I know it's hard to think outside what you've been told, or what your pseudo-jock friends believe, but don't fall for the lowest common denominator, man.

          It's douchy.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:26 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          It's not that hard Sam, it's just not normal that's all.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:30 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Coppin' it, washin' it, 'bout to go and get some compliments
          Passin' up on those moccasins someone else's been walkin' in
          But me and grungy fuckin it man
          I am stuntin' and flossin' and
          Savin' my money and I'm hella happy that's a bargain, bitch
          I'ma take your grandpa's style, I'ma take your grandpa's style,
          No for real – ask your grandpa – can I have his hand-me-downs? (Thank you)
          Velour jumpsuit and some house slippers
          Dookie brown leather jacket that I found diggin'
          They had a broken keyboard, I bought a broken keyboard
          I bought a skeet blanket, then I bought a kneeboard
          Hello, hello, my ace man, my Mello
          John Wayne ain't got nothing on my fringe game, hell no
          I could take some Pro Wings, make them cool, sell those
          The sneaker heads would be like "Aw, he got the Velcros"

          March 13, 2013 at 12:36 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – Do you have a source for your statement that homosexuality is not normal? I thought not. It is another fact your pulled out of your a–. You need to start doing your homework and stop posting crap that you make up.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:37 am | Report abuse |
        • Who is "LLORT"? Zork?

          Eric...the only deluded people are those who talk smack like they are facts and call LOVE a disability or an Illness.
          Its just LOVE eric...Love.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:43 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          You probably meant the love for poop right?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:46 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – If you are talking about anal sex, many straight couples have anal sex, and may gay couples do not. What is your point?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:49 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          GetLoss, one day the right person will find your prostate, and you'll understand.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:52 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Anal sex was never a thing to be heard of between a man and a woman years ago, that was before the gay community brainwashed the general public about it being a normal thing to do and is acceptable.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:01 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          The right girl would peg you good. Sadly. you're too repulsive and too much of an asshole to attract anyone.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:04 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          And you want us to believe that the anus of a person is a sexual organ right? It is really the main function of an anus right?

          March 13, 2013 at 1:20 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          In your case, the mouth and/or brain expels more waste...

          March 13, 2013 at 1:40 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sorry to tell you Sam but now you're really getting off the track.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:45 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Sadly, I was just following your lead, dumbass.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:49 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          You aren't following my lead, you're just babbling whatever comes to your small thinking brain. lol

          March 13, 2013 at 1:56 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I wear your granddad's clothes
          I look incredible
          I'm in this big ass coat
          From that thrift shop down the road

          March 13, 2013 at 2:19 am | Report abuse |
    • sam

      No one can trust you, you spelled 'Lord' wrong. You're going to hell!!!

      March 12, 2013 at 11:56 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        So Sam, are you an atheist or not?

        March 13, 2013 at 12:09 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          If you don't go away, I'm going to start posting the lyrics to 'Thrift Shop'.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:17 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Are you or are you not one?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:20 am | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          Sam's beliefs or lack thereof are not relevant. He's free to believe as he chooses. He's a voice among many who has a rightful say in the matter as a whole. That's all that really matters.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:27 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Nah, Walk up to the club like, "What up, I got a big cock!"
          I'm so pumped about some shit from the thrift shop
          Ice on the fringe, it's so damn frosty
          That people like, "Damn! That's a cold ass honkey."
          Rollin' in, hella deep, headin' to the mezzanine,
          Dressed in all pink, 'cept my gator shoes, those are green
          Draped in a leopard mink, girls standin' next to me
          Probably shoulda washed this, smells like R. Kelly's sheets
          (Piiisssssss)
          But shit, it was ninety-nine cents! (Bag it)

          March 13, 2013 at 12:28 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Control yourself Sam, you're starting to lose some marbles.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:32 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I'm gonna pop some tags
          Only got twenty dollars in my pocket
          I – I – I'm hunting, looking for a come-up
          This is fucking awesome

          March 13, 2013 at 12:38 am | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          Nah, he's not losing his marbles. He's just jamming out and wearing your grand-dad's clothes.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:41 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Naw he just lost it.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:47 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          What you know about rockin' a wolf on your noggin?
          What you knowin' about wearin' a fur fox skin?
          I'm digging, I'm digging, I'm searching right through that luggage
          One man's trash, that's another man's come-up

          March 13, 2013 at 12:53 am | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      Being gay is not a sin. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality when it is put in historical and cultural context and is read using reason, as Jesus did. If you disagree, please cite a verse.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        You really need to read the bible again pmdww2. Don't ask to cite a verse, it wouldn't hurt you if you read it and find it by yourself.

        March 13, 2013 at 12:03 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          No, no, feel free to come up with some backward quotes we can giggle and eat popcorn over.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:05 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – If you are going to claim that the Bible condemns homosexuality, be able to back it up with specific verses. Do your homework or don't post.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:09 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sure Sam, but only after you will admit being an atheist.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:10 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          @Pmdww2

          Yes i am claiming just that, read it yourself and don't pretend you did or just because someone else told you so.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:11 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – You obviously have no clue what the Bible says, or you would be able to cite a verse that condemns homosexuality. You make statements without sources to back them up, which means you basically pull facts out of your a–. Do your homework and stop posting misinformation that you make up.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:17 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          GetLoss is a poser and the wifi in his trailer park isn't good enough to google bible quotes.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:19 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          You've failed Pmdww2, you obviously never read the bible. Your voice means nothing until you know what you're talking about.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:22 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – Get back to me when you can cite a verse from the Bible that condemns homosexuality.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:26 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Even if i cite one verse you will deny it, that is what you people do. Go ahead and read it and you will find what you're looking for. After all, you will not burn your hands if you touch a bible, there's nothing to be scared of.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:35 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Troll.

          Poser bitch.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:39 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – In other words, no, you cannot cite a verse from the Bible that condemns homosexuality.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:39 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Yes i can, but i won't. You said it is not mentioned in the bible, so that makes you the one who need an answer, and that answer you're looking for is in the bible. So go ahead and read it.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:50 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – I cannot quote what is not there. The Bible does not condemn homosexuality when it is put in historical and cultural context and is read using reason. If you disagree, please cite a verse.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:53 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Fool can't do it. Fake christian, posing as a grown up.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:02 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Since you are too lazy to go read in the bible here is one of them. Go read there's more than one in the bible. By the way haven't you said that you were a christian? lol

          You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

          March 13, 2013 at 1:09 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          The OT was meant for the Jews, god's chosen people, and the original quote from the Greek and Aramaic does not jibe with what you've quoted. What else do you have, bitch? What did Jesus say?

          March 13, 2013 at 1:13 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Perfect denial same old saying of an atheist when presented an evidence. You atheists are very predictable, you're not as sneaky as you might think you are.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:23 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – You quoted Leviticus as condemning homosexuality because the Scripture says, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is an abomination." As a gay man, I do not have sex with women, I have sex with men. Thus, I do not lie with mankind as with womankind. This Scripture was not intended to condemn homosexuality.

          By the way, Leviticus also forbids wearing clothes made of two fabrics and says we should stone children who disrespect their parents. You had better check your closet and supply of stones.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:26 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          This is exactly why i refused to cite a verse in the first place, i knew what you were going for. But i played your game and i cited a verse so you would babbles your atheist usual garbage. You are predictable and every weak atheist. I can detect you a mile away. And by the way, you are not a christian, but that you will never admit it. Of course, after all an atheist cannot tell the truth lol.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:34 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Stupid poser bitch.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:41 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          LOL Sam, like i said you atheists are very predictable.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:47 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Yes – most are smart enough to recognize you as a stupid poser bitch.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:50 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          You forgot to mention that they are are not smarter than me lol.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:57 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          God frowns on arrogance.

          March 13, 2013 at 2:19 am | Report abuse |
    • GaymilitaryUSA

      So isn't eating shellfish according to your sources. The only thing the Supreme Court needs to follow is The Constitution of the United States of America a living document. Gay marriage will be legal soon.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:06 am | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        I hope not.

        March 13, 2013 at 12:14 am | Report abuse |
    • Who is "LLORT"? Zork?

      Come on. Blah Blah Blah. We have heard it all before from you lunatics. Being an apathetic self centered human being who picks and chooses on his Bible Verse to hate on people is what is the real abomination. If you are good because you are scared of a hell burning you, then you really are not a good person at all

      March 13, 2013 at 12:18 am | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      You're entitled to your views, but remember that when you are allowed to impose your particular views on society at large, remember this when the next faith you don't subscribe to gets their way on something you disagree with.

      We respect the rights of all to practice their faith, but when elements of faith are at conflict with greater society, it's not beneficial. Next time it might be another faith forcing restrictions on your way of life that you don't care for.

      Allow the common law to guide us all where we can agree. You have that and you still have your religious freedom to practice as you will.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:19 am | Report abuse |
    • MOCaseA

      Fortunately for the population of the U.S., and unfortunately for you, the Judges are NOT allowed to take their faith or God into consideration when determining the Constitutionality of a discriminatory law. You can rant an rail against homosexuality all you want, say it is against God's Law, and condemn the homosexuals all you want; but remember, if you are allowed to do it, the Muslims are allowed to condemn you for attempting to twist the true faith and turn people against Allah. The Buddhists are allowed to pass laws forbidding the consumption of alcohol because it hinder the human ability to perceive the divine. And the Wiccans are allowed to rename all the national holidays that were stolen from them in an attempt to force conversion from the "pagan" beliefs into Catholicism.

      You cannot discriminate in law based on religion (this is a Constitutional Requirement), and you cannot base law on Religious dogma. Thanks for playing though.

      March 13, 2013 at 1:43 am | Report abuse |
  35. CarmenSo

    I think the other woman was cheating on her adn decided to leave taking the kids with her. Either way she was pretty ruthless

    March 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Even though we don't have the full story, I'm afraid you may be right.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Report abuse |
  36. albie

    Gay marriage is fine, but gay couples raising children is not – children should always we given the chance for a normal life and being raised by gay parents is not normal no matter how loudly the gay community screams that it is.

    March 12, 2013 at 11:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      I feel like a broken record, someone else straighten this person out (pun intended).

      March 12, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      What about the children that are victims of domestic violence at straight households? I guess they don't matter.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • Perry

        As my mother used to say, two wrongs don't make a right.

        March 13, 2013 at 12:12 am | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      albie – What is most important is that children are raised in a loving, supportive home, whether that is in a home with heterosexual or homosexual parents. "The research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being." – The American Psychological Association.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      @sam I copies this from another post.

      Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      March 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        "copied"

        March 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        The sexual and gender roles that we've understood as traditional for so long are not necessarily static, or correct...good post. When someone loves someone else I don't see why it harms anyone else, in a societal or traditional sense. If someone else's happiness threatens your own, how can you not ask yourself why?

        March 13, 2013 at 12:03 am | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      Albie,

      Not that I agree with you, but does this mean that you'll step up for the rest of us then and provide the financial, emotional, developmental, health and educational needs of children coming through the foster care system?

      Are you aware that children adopted through the system by gay parents fare as well and catch up with children placed in families with a man and a woman? In fact they do well to the point that more often than not, the children with the greater challenges and needs are more frequently placed with gay parents, yet despite that, they catch up. See: http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/foster-children-adopted-by-gay-239748.aspx

      March 12, 2013 at 11:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • lophius

      Interesting. And how, exactly, would you define "normal"? Is having a mom & a dad "normal"? But, what if mom is serving her country overseas for 9 months and dad has to raise the child by himself for a while? Is that still "normal"? What if dad dies in an accident, leaving mom as the sole parent... is that still "normal"? And, what if mom & dad are always fighting, filling the child's ears with shouting as he falls asleep every night... is that still "normal"? Perhaps there is no such thing as "normal", a fiction created by what society of the times feels comfortable with. Fortunately, as I have witnessed in my few decades of life, society can and does change, and while the pace may not be as rapid as I would wish, I do believe it is moving in the right direction...

      Just my 2 pennies...

      March 12, 2013 at 11:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • johannflobberschnoggit

      Albie,

      There have been decades long studies on the effects of upbringings by homosexual parents. The conclusions? The children involved grow up just as well adjusted (and sometimes better) than those brought up by heterosexual couples.

      In other words: My hair is a bird, your argument is invalid.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:08 am | Report abuse |
      • sam

        LOL

        March 13, 2013 at 12:19 am | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        And this article is a good example of what you're saying right?

        March 13, 2013 at 12:28 am | Report abuse |
        • JC

          What? That makes no sense...

          March 13, 2013 at 12:41 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Yes it does.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:51 am | Report abuse |
        • JC

          To you, I guess...

          March 13, 2013 at 12:54 am | Report abuse |
    • Kevin

      That is total discrimination. Are you going to make it illegal for an unwed woman to get pregnant. Practically speaking, any lesbian can get pregnant from a man or sperm donor and become a mother. Are you going to make that illegal. Also, in the modern era, gay men can use their sperm for in vitro fertilization and then have a surrogate carry the baby. Are you going to make that illegal for them but legal for infertile straight couples. Total discrimination.

      March 13, 2013 at 2:15 am | Report abuse |
  37. Blah

    Gay marriage is a non-issue. Everyone should have the right to marry. Period.

    March 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      Well said.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • GetLoss

      Let's marry a fish with a cat or even better a woman to a dog while we're at it.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Heeeey, you keep your kinky fantasies out of this!! Dirty dirty pervert!!

        March 12, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • pmdww2

        Animals cannot give consent. It scares me how quickly you jump from the discussion of marriage between two people of the same gender to your comment about marrying a cat or a dog. Do you think of marrying animals often?

        March 12, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Why not? you gay people keep saying that it is normal being gay because animal do it too. You're comparing yourselves with animals every time you're using that as an example to justify your behavior. Not a very comparison at all.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:51 pm | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          Getloss – The only time I have heard gays talking about homosexual behavior in animals is when someone says being gay is not natural. Homosexuality is seen throughout nature, so the argument that being gay is not natural is ludicrous.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Report abuse |
        • huhb

          What we've learned in the 20+ years of the marriage equality debate is that social conservatives are incapable of interacting with other humans without picturing them having sex, and that they're positively desperate to marry their children/pets/siblings/cars/etc.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:03 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          And you still compare your behavior to animal behavior just to justify yourselves? Sorry but its definitely not a good choice for a comparison. Try to find something else more valuable.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:05 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          We're here for you, GetLoss. You can come out to us, we'll understand. We know you've had your eye on the neighbor's poodle for a while now, and I want you to know that if you talk it out, you're less likely to do it.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:08 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sam, sorry but unlike you and your alike, i don't fantasize about animals. lol

          March 13, 2013 at 12:13 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Could have fooled me. My 'alike'? Are you drunk?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:21 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Aren't you an atheist and gay with that Sam?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:23 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          LOL

          Go home, you're drunk.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:31 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sam, the more you post the more you show who you really are lol.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:38 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          ...someone immune to your bullshit? Ok.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:42 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Don't worry Sam, you won't commit a crime if you admit being an atheist.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:52 am | Report abuse |
        • Kyle's mom is a ...

          GET LOSS

          YOU ARE A CRAZY STALKER

          YOU NEED JESUS

          March 13, 2013 at 12:56 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          @Kyle's mom

          It's not very nice to pose as a christian impostor.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:49 am | Report abuse |
        • Kyle's mom is a...

          YOU NEED JESUS FOR REAL

          March 13, 2013 at 1:51 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          You need to go to bed.

          March 13, 2013 at 2:03 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I like turtles

          March 13, 2013 at 2:23 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I like gay turtles.

          March 13, 2013 at 4:14 am | Report abuse |
  38. Marie

    @ sam

    you are truly a one man army. reply on, brother. don't let the fundies get you down.

    March 12, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      That cracked me up. I think we mainly have trolls at this point with a smattering of actual sane people.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        The only troll here is you Sam.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:35 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          You wound me. I need cold water for that burn. You got me, oh, that hurt. Please, mercy.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • GetLoss

      Poor Sam, do you happen to have something in your home that could make your tongue numb for a while? lol

      March 12, 2013 at 11:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Seriously? That's what you have? I don't type with my tongue, so...c'mon, man, you're letting me down.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Ok then, don't you have anything that can make both your brain and fingers numb?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Reading your posts, I suppose...

          March 13, 2013 at 12:08 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Good, keep reading then.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:16 am | Report abuse |
  39. Glen

    What a disgusting piece of **** the dishonorable judge Richard Garcia is.

    March 12, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Report abuse |
  40. kisa

    Being scientifically proven to have genetic linkage doesnt make it right. We wouldnt be treating schizophrenia, diabetes, sickle cell disease , mania and many others – after all they have a genetic predisposition.

    March 12, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Those are diseases. Being gay is not a disease. Your post is offensive.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        Mental sickness probably?

        March 12, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          In your case, you mean? Quite likely...although it's early for a conclusive diagnosis.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:24 pm | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – Homosexuality is considered a normal part of human sexuality by the following professional mental health associations: The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, the American Counseling Association, the Canadian Psychological Association, and the National Association of Social Workers.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Pmdww2, it was declared a mental illness, they changed it after politicians were fed up and got bored of hearing the gay community crying over this fact. Then they changed it just to please you. And now you go around telling everyone that it's not a mental illness. Sorry to hear that you believe in a fictional lie fabricated by you.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – Homosexuality was removed as a disorder from the DSM in 1973 because of studies (the first of which was in 1957) that showed that there was, "No scientific basis for inferring a predisposition to psychopathology or other maladjustment as intrinsic to homosexuality or bisexuality." Source – American Psychological Association. Political pressure from gays had nothing to do with it. Gays and lesbians had virtually no political influence in the early 1970s.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          GetLoss thinks there's a Big Gay Conspiracy. He/she/it thinks about gay sex more than gay people do.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          It is a lie Pmdww2, it was removed because of the pressure that the gay community have put on the politicians back then. It still don't change the fact that it is a mental illness.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          I think I will trust the statements made by the American Psychological Association and other professional mental health associations which say that homosexuality is normal over your opinion to the contrary, GetLoss.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:01 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          It has nothing to do with my own opinion, it is a fact that's all. I don't like to lie to myself and then turn around and believing it.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:08 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          You don't like to lie to yourself...uh huh. Fascinating.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:10 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – Do you have a source to back up your claim that homosexuality is a mental illness? I thought not.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:13 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Pmdww2, are you an atheist too?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:17 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          Get Loss – Why is that relevant?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:24 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          To me it is.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:39 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – I am a Christian. If you are a Christian, why can't you quote a verse from the Bible condemning homosexuality?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:42 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I love when atheist pretend to be a christian, and avoid answering when asked if they are an atheist. lol

          March 13, 2013 at 12:54 am | Report abuse |
        • Kyle's mom is a ...

          YOU ARE A CRAZY STALKER

          TALK TO JESUS HE WILL HELP

          March 13, 2013 at 12:57 am | Report abuse |
        • pmdww2

          GetLoss – Why did you ask if I was a Christian if you were not going to believe me? Luckily, you do not get to decide who is a Christian and who isn't.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:00 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Atheists in their full glory of lies. For a christian Pmdww2, you don't even know what the bible says about homosexuality.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:14 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Neither do you, GetLoss. You're the worst kind of liar.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:17 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Give me one single example of a lie that i made.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:25 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Every single thing you've posted...and your bullshit existence.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:43 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sorry Sam but you have failed to provide a single evidence that i lied.

          March 13, 2013 at 1:50 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I like turtles

          March 13, 2013 at 2:24 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I like gay turtles.

          March 13, 2013 at 4:15 am | Report abuse |
      • albie

        his logic is sound actually

        March 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Whose logic? Sound, how? Do regale us with your wit.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      @kisa...........Wow. The things you mentioned are illnesses. Being gay doesn't make you sick.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bladerunner

        You are still here??? YOu really need to find something else to do. Being gay is wrong. Allowing gays to get children is wrong. Deal with it and move on.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          ?? You're telling him to find something else to do, yet here you are, purposely checking on an article hours later to see if you can stir some trouble. That's irony, son.

          It's not wrong. Buy a clue.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:28 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          Yes I'm still here. I'm so glad you're focused on me! As you can tell I'm a male Are you a male? Is your curiosity in me s3xual? Do you find my points erotic? Ooohhh aahhhhhh. I await your reply. loverboy. Do you always follow men this way?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      A disease is typically defined as something that afflicts and causes dysfunction discomfort or pain in a number of ways.

      The pain and discomfort inflicted upon the LGBT community is external and internalized external pressures to conform to the societal status quo.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • Marie

      while there is some speculation that being gay may have biological roots, that is totally different than having a "genetic predisposition" to being gay. A biological explanation is in no way necessarily the same thing as a genetic "cause." A genetic predisposition will always lead to a biological difference, but a biological "cause" is not always explained by genetics. Being gay is not passed down through the generations. Please retake human biology. #BASICSCIENCE

      March 12, 2013 at 11:25 pm | Report abuse |
  41. Brian from DC

    FYI–for future reference: whenever anyone uses the word "lifestyle" in relation to Gay people you know that you're takling to an idiot.

    March 12, 2013 at 10:59 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      I can only agree.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Report abuse |
  42. MiddleGround

    I am not opposed to gay marriage and the associated binding social contracts that people wish to enter into. But, I will say that every child needs a male figure and female figure in their life. If what a family "is" needs to be redefined to fit that, so be it. If two women want to raise a child there needs to be a male figure involved; even if the child is a girl. In the likelihood that the girl is straight she needs a good man who is possibly related to set an example for her. If it's a little boy he needs a male figure. Visa versa with two men an a kid.

    Although I consider myself a progressive/liberal, I do feel that mens' roles in raising families has been relegated in a way that is not health for society. I am growing to see the genisis of this in the 1960s with 1) how the welfare system made it so families could recieve benefits if a man was in the house; thus you had the stereotypical to this day..., "I don't need no man....". 2) Second wave feminism, for all the good it has done for women has taught women that they can do "anything". We are starting to see that children have been neglected.

    Going back to the gay parental rights. If we neglect that gender roles are important in society, we are robbing children I believe. So, I would say if you are gay, make sure you have someone around as surrogate or God parent. Children need men and women in their lives. It has been shown that kids of single family homes have a harder time with relationships. The studies that I have seen with children of gay couples are a very small and skewed sample. For example, if most of your studies are in San Francisco or Seattle, that doesn't account for the experience a kid will have in Little Rock. Yes, you can argue the same for race and multi-racial children, but I would argue back that sexuality is the root of who we are and goes back farther than race or religion. Anyway, I'm blabbing......

    My point is that if your gonna have a gay family, make sure there's someone around of the opposite gender.

    March 12, 2013 at 10:51 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      "My point is that if your gonna have a gay family, make sure there's someone around of the opposite gender".

      Kinda puts a cramp in the whole gay thing dont'cha think?

      You act as if every straight relationship is perfect for children. I guess divorce, abuse, drugs, alcohol etc. are "good" for children.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Lobo

      There are no "men's roles" or "women's roles" in child rearing, as almost any modern family can tell you that parents now share responsibilities that used to be relegated to a single sex. Your way of thinking is archaic, and there are so many studies proving that children from single parent homes turn out fine that it renders your entire argument laughably invalid.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Report abuse |
    • Peapod

      uh... how do you explain a Metrosexual DAD who's power tool is a blowdryer and a cell phone & a MOM who likes home improvement and has more tools than Bob Vila? dilemma.... better get a social worker on the case!

      March 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm | Report abuse |
  43. Olivia

    I am both a Christian and a proponent of gay rights. I, personally, believe that the union of two people of the same sex is a sin, but then again so is piercing your ears or getting a tattoo. As an admirer of Thomas Jefferson, I firmly believe in the "separation of church and state" and therefore believe that unions recognized by the law should be allowed for homosexual couples. As for adoption, I have seen too many children with poor heterosexual parents or a negligent single parent to truly believe that denying two responsible, committed adults the right to raise children, especially when we allow adoption by singles, is right and good.
    That said, I have little respect for those who preach that choice should be allowed and then "hate" on those simply for their religious beliefs. Troll bigots if you truly believe that they are worth your time, but leave Christians merely showing a different viewpoint alone. Respect their beliefs as you wish yours to be respected.

    March 12, 2013 at 10:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      Olivia,

      First, I respect your right to your beliefs. I'm not here to dismiss your beliefs and feelings as invalid. I choose to disagree, but that's not the point of the response.

      Please, try to consider what it's been like for those who don't agree with you. Think about all of the gay kids who were kicked out on the street by their Christian parents who told them they'd always love them. The pastors who shunned them. Think about the kids who survive on the street by selling their bodies to the very men who proclaim how terrible homosexuality is and the detriment it's causing to society.

      I realize that it's not all of the church that has committed these acts, but the while suffers by association. And if that doesn't help you much with your frustration, remember that Christ never promised the easy life. He suffered. It's not unreasonable for us to expect the same. There was never a promise of a charmed life.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • oldowl

        trizzy78, Intended or not, yours is the most Christian view currently on this board.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          I'm only sad that it took the time it did to get there in my life, but I'm still young. Well... Maybe not to the "kids" in their 20's.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Then you are indeed a rare breed, and sadly, within the next several minutes, someone is likely to come along and accuse you of not being a good christian. Sigh.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Report abuse |
      • trizzy78

        That's OK. I still believe what I believe, and what that tells me is that my good nor bad actions, or lack thereof, or even my beliefs have no impact on the love of God. It's solid. Say what they will. Many of us Christians kind of get caught up on thinking we are really important players in the picture. I know I did for a time in my life. It's not a good thing. It most often results in inflicting pain rather than offering much hope.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • Olivia

        Very likely. That would be a fun debate though. My father is both a pastor and a professor of American Government at the Christian college I attend, so I would have some ammunition. As some one who has spent their whole life in churches, various Christian schools and now a Baptist college I can most certainly see where you guys are coming from. Several ministerial students have made it very clear they believe I will burn, but the majority of the students on campus are very accepting of different beliefs whether they be religious, racial, or political (no small feat in the deep south). I know several openly gay students, atheists, Hindus, and "flaming liberal democrats." There are always the zealots that ignore the love Jesus taught because it is inconvenient for their modern day crusades and unfortunately, these people so often undereducated in Biblical teachings tend to be the most vocal on the interwebs. Just know that most of us younger Christians, even if we don't agree with your choices, believe in your right to make them and your right as a fellow human being to be respected.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Now I just like you both and hope no one says anything dumb to either of you, but...selfishly...I kind of hope they do because it would be fun to watch you show them what's what.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:09 pm | Report abuse |
        • Olivia

          Thanks, but I'm pretty sure an overabundance of proper grammar and civilized conversation will scare away the trolls.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Haha! Oh no, big words!

          March 12, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Report abuse |
        • lophius

          I'm just so happy to read a genuine conversation, an exchange of ideas, beliefs, thoughts... I'd almost given up hope for civility on these boards. Thank you! :-)

          March 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          Sam, you have a good heart. Don't let anyone take that away from you.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I just get grouchy when I think the underdog is getting the hindermost.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bladerunner

      You are not a "Christian." You may like to think you are but Christ would disown you.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        omg, here it is! HERE IT IS LOL

        March 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • Olivia

        Please read Matthew 7. I'm sure someone with viewpoints as strongly worded as yours knows the Bible by heart. Also, does the word Pharisees ring a bell.
        If you must deny my faith and profession in belief of Jesus Christ please tell me exactly what my transgressions are that will condemn me.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:35 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Bladerunner, you must take that plank from your own eye.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Report abuse |
  44. Jason Wang

    The point of the story is that gays and lesbians can claim they want special rights when they start a family, but when the breakup comes suddenly the birth mother pretends gays and lesbians have no rights and claims the children all to herself.

    March 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Wang, they're not special rights, they're the same rights straights get. Plus, only one member of the couple took advantage of the lack of adoptions rights.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • Peter Edick

      Jason you presented yourself as incredibly ignorant when indicating "special" rights were desired by the gay couple. They were normal rights given to straight couple. Please stop shoving your religion down my throat.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • Patrick

      Let's hear of even once instance where that's happened LIAR.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Patrick

      We all know what you'd say to a friend that had never heard of civil unions and asked what it meant. You'd reply "Oh it's when gays get M A R R I E D". DUH.

      Marriage means two people making a commitment to spend their lives together. End of story. There's no need to invent a new word for it. We already have one. "Marriage". You just want your special rights.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dino

        Yes, I agree that marriage should be between two people who plan to spend the rest of their lives together, but it doesn't always work out that way. So when a hetrosexual couple get divorced, and a battle follows for custody of their children, are they after "special rights"?

        March 12, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Report abuse |
        • Patrick

          No, they should be after equal rights if they're equally supportive. Unfortunately in many states it's unequal and a mother who is a cocaine addict has more rights to the children than a father who is sober and drug free and working to provide for his children.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:59 pm | Report abuse |
  45. ramon

    For those that claim to be Christians and have no knowledge of Christianity regarding homosexuality, and for unbelievers that do not know what God said regarding this subject, and for homosexuals to repent and come home to the Lord: Romans 1
    21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
    28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

    March 12, 2013 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      ramon. -10 points for bible quotes.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jesus Christ

      Your god was made up by men trying to control the masses back when there wasn't much to do but herd goats.

      Even if he did exist? No one cares what he had to say. If he doesn't like it he should get down here and make his case.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
      • ramon

        Check history and you’ll find out that He already did, but we killed him nearly 2,000 years ago.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:59 pm | Report abuse |
        • Jesus Christ

          No, it was Jesus that got nailed up. God decided to sit that part out. Unless of course you're one of those nutty trinity people...

          If he's dead, I guess the discussion's over.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • Oliver Twist

      for nonbelievers "what God said" is irrelevant. Lets stick with logic and reason.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:50 pm | Report abuse |
      • MarioLuiggi

        Agreed then. However, if you dont believe in God, you end up believing in any trend that comes along. So what is the logic in equating heterosexual procreative and natural sex with homosexual non-procreative and unnatural sex? How can homosexuals generate a family naturally and serve as parents that provide both a male and female models to children? Nobody is saying that we should hate gays, nobody is saying they can not love each other or children. What is being discussed is whether gay unions should be promoted and reongized as healthy and as ideal as heteresexual family. They are not. It is illogical to say they are.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
        • ME

          I can tell from your posts, MarioLuigi that you are most likely British. Why are you concerning yourself with American domestic politics? Still bitter that you lost the battle in the UK?

          March 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Report abuse |
        • Oliver Twist

          Sorry, but your entire argument is based solely on opinion and has no basis in fact.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Mario, honestly. What is 'unnatural'? It's like you're parroting something you learned as a child.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:16 pm | Report abuse |
        • Marie

          Mario, here's the problem with your question: there is a huge difference between PROMOTING something (in this case a certain type of parenting) vs. protecting someone's RIGHT to do something (in this case adopting and raising a child if you happen to be gay). Here in the US we protect the rights of many people to do things that we many find particularly unsavory because to create laws than ban those things would be even more unsavory as a society. For example, I think people who make racist comments on online articles rather distasteful nor would I want society or our laws to "promote" that type of behavior, but I would never say that there should be a law banning that activity because I believe people have a right to say whatever they want in online comments. Such is the case here. Promoting something and protecting someone's right to something are not even close to being one and the same thing. You need to understand logic and argument.

          Disclaimer: I do not think gay parents adopting is distasteful. I'm just using the above as an example.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ammo80

        For non-believers to not care what God has said is to their own detriment. As God has said in the bible, all non-believers, wicked and sinful men, women, boys and girls will find their place in the lake of fire and hell, which was not built for humans to dwell, but for Satan and his angels. Believers must love all with the love of Christ, including those who would continue to deceive themselves through the darkness of their mind and heart. If a human being offered you a free gift, which you didn't deserve or could ever earn, I'd bet you'd take it without questioning its validity. God offers the free gift of salvation to all men in Jesus Christ–something we don't deserve, but which God gives to us because he loves us. However, God will give us His just judgment for our continuance deciding to live wickedly, regardless of what he says. My prayer is that all people everywhere would repent and turn to God, and receive His free gift of salvation in Jesus Christ. Regardless of what President Obama, movie stars, etc. says, it will not negate what God has said about sin. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord–Romans 6:23

        March 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Holy crow, I am too sober for the 'lake of fire' argument. Ugh.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:15 pm | Report abuse |
        • Who is "LLORT"? Zork?

          Holy Sh***! I need my medicine after that. Again if you need to be good because youre scared of a fiery lake, youre not a good person!!

          March 13, 2013 at 12:31 am | Report abuse |
    • ME

      Would you also like to quote the passages saying that one may sell his daughter? How about the one that says that if your testicles are not intact you cant enter heaven? I can give 100 + examples of arbitrary rules found in the bible. Why is it that some of them are ignored while others are so strictly enforced? Could it be because people ar just picking the rules they like?

      March 12, 2013 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • danielalfred

        He didn't quote Leviticus or Deuteronomy. He's referencing Romans, the most theologically robust book of the New Testament. There might be plenty to debate, but you can't use the "what about bacon" argument here.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:23 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Theologically robust: my new favorite oxymoron.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      Ramon,

      The trouble here is we Christians don't agree. That's why we shouldn't be introducing elements of our beliefs into the common laws of society. There are commonalities that all can generally agree upon (society and various sects of Christianity or other faiths for that matter). For the rest, why should I expect someone who doesn't share my beliefs to live by them?

      Do we really want to put the Catholics in control of birth control? Maybe the Mormons and the Southern Baptists could jointly start the new war on drugs and keep out the alcohol, caffeine, and cigarettes. Seriously, think about that proposition and what you imply by quoting the bible in the context of the common laws.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        "That's why we shouldn't be introducing elements of our beliefs into the common laws of society. There are commonalities that all can generally agree upon (society and various sects of Christianity or other faiths for that matter). For the rest, why should I expect someone who doesn't share my beliefs to live by them?"

        1) Thank you.
        2) You're using rational, sane logic in a comment section, that is like dividing by zero.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dorothy

      A+ for being able to copy words. F for being able to understand what it means to be a christian.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • ramon

        Hi Dorothy, you only have two choices: If you believe what God said then you are a believer, and if you don’t believe what God said then you are an unbeliever.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:16 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Sure, ramon! First, just tell us which of christianity's 30,000 sects you're from so we can line up!

          March 12, 2013 at 10:19 pm | Report abuse |
        • ramon

          I don’t belong to any church nor can I classify myself in any religion. I am a believer, and believe what God said.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          God never actually said anything, so you believe in...nothing. Cpngrats.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:44 pm | Report abuse |
        • Dorothy

          So basically you don't believe in the interpretation of any of the multiple christian sects......you've come up with your own interpretation and you believe it is better than anyone else's how humble of you

          March 12, 2013 at 10:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        Sam, you're fighting something you don't believe in, are you delusional? Don't you see that you're making a fool of yourself?

        March 12, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          It's called 'disagreeing with people pushing a delusion to the detriment of others'.

          Get lost, amature.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sam stop modifying the meaning of words, you're nothing else than a confused atheist.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:20 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Comedy gold! Too easy, I'll have to let this one pass.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eyeroll

      Ah how empty some people's lives would be without the random opportunity to spout off some Bible quotes and be judgmental of others while ignoring the obvious failings in their own lives.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        People like you who support gays aren't any better when you call others bigots and other names. That don't make you any better.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:58 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Was that your trite advice of the day? Is it ok for the big kids to keep talking, den mom?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Report abuse |
        • oldowl

          Names like: delusional? fool? confused atheist?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • Peter

      Ramone, were you ever boastful, gossiped, slandered, disobey your parents? Stop with the bible verses.....don't judge because we are ALL sinners. Let God judge.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:27 pm | Report abuse |
      • ramon

        Hi Peter that’s why we all need to repent and accept Jesus as He atoned for our sins, instead of saying that sin is ok as it is in this case.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          There's no such thing as sin. Take care of your own self and let others take care of themselves.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:49 pm | Report abuse |
        • oldowl

          Maybe when you repent of your judgmental spirit, and accept Jesus, who said nothing against homosexuals, and stop trying to put words in Gods mouth that he did not say, then you will have a legitimate claim to being a Christian. Your smug, self-righteous attitude belies that you might be a follower of Christ. Quit hiding from God; he knows what you are all about, and you might learn something if you change your ways.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        Sam you're talking backward, you judge others as much as anyone else does. By the way who made you a judge for saying that there is no such thing as sins? Where is your evidence?

        March 12, 2013 at 11:00 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Sin is concept that was invented to keep the masses in control. I don't care what you think; I don't need your advice, Go hang.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:03 pm | Report abuse |
      • GetLoss

        So you have no evidence, you're not providing anything else than just your own opinion and you want us to listen to you?

        March 12, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Who is 'us'? I don't care who listens, if someone is going to say something ignorant and short sighted, I'm happy to negate it. What is your agenda, here?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Contrary oy our hypocrisy for not telling that you are in fact an atheist, i will admit that i love hunting atheist like you.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          That's a shame for you, since you've brought a slingshot to this flamethrower contest. Run along, sweetpea, before mommy finds out you're on the talky-box past your bedtime.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          So Sam, will you finally admit that you are an atheist?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:44 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I told you, dirty birdy, I'm not going to take part in sexual gratification outside marriage.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:53 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sorry Sam, you've failed to pass the test. That makes you either an hypocrite or someone that have something to hide.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          That makes no sense. Can I have a crazy-to-english dictionary, please?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:12 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          If you need a dictionary to find out what a simple question like are you or are you not an atheist, then you're not too intelligent for an atheist.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:19 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I'm a Satanist. ALL HAIL LORD SATAN!!!

          March 13, 2013 at 12:23 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Good Sam, from now on whatever you will say people will not take you seriously. lol

          March 13, 2013 at 12:42 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          TURTLES

          March 13, 2013 at 2:25 am | Report abuse |
    • AgentFrank

      Hey, Ramon, put down the book and get back to mowing.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • Angel

      Amen! Thank you for sharing some truth among all of this liberal mess.

      God's word is clear. One can either accept it and choose to live for Him or deny it to excuse your sin and perish. As Christians, we share this kind of information because we LOVE YOU despite your hatred for us. Like our Lord, we wish that none would perish, but all would come to repentance.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        LOL

        Yeah...I think the world needs a little less of the kind of 'love' where you shame people for who they are and how they feel, then call it god's word. Thanks for playing.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:58 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sam do you want an Oscar or a Nobel Prize for your intelligence? That is if you have any.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Did I hit a nerve, cupcake?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sam you sound like Tom Tom The Dumber Son. Oh by the way it shows too much, you are definitely an atheist.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Holy shit, is this HeavenSent? That's the only poster I've seen with a guaranteed hardon for TomTom. Your obsession is unhealthy.

          Whoever you are, get bent, you crazy old bat. What I believe is none of your concern or business.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:20 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Atheist in their full Glory, liars at their best. The hat fits you nicely Sam aka Tom Tom.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:25 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          It's the Atheist Hunter/HeavenSent/just sayin/captain america troll. Can I have your autograph? Or are you too busy making your next tinfoil hat to keep the alien brainwaves out?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          So what about telling us that you are an atheist? What are you ashamed of and what are you afraid of?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I'm afraid that you might vote, or breed.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:24 am | Report abuse |
  46. e

    they're upset if life isnt followed exactly how they were told. people who preach religion never open their eyes to the real world. only to the belief of their denomination.

    March 12, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
  47. motionlessinpink

    I'm just so happy two people love each other and want to make a commitment to marry and have children, in that order, that I could care less if they are gay. Two people who love each other and want to raise a child beats the heck out of one person who doesn't give a darn. Over seventy five percent of the children in my classroom come from single parent homes where the parent and I use the term loosely is a teenage mother. Bless these kids hearts, they're a hot mess.

    March 12, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • MarioLuiggi

      Children deserve both a father and a mother figure so they can properly form their sexuality and future heteresxual relatioinships. Also, marriage has the original main function of providing protection to not only a committed relationship but one that has the potential and duty to generate and grow a family. That is why an heteresexual marriage is important and must be protect and why gay marriage does not fit the same definition. Legal recognition for gay couples can have other forms of legal arrangements that differ from marriage. There is no "discrimination" in recognizing the obvious. so much that many gays in Europe are actually OPPOSED to gay marriage.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        The original intent of marriage was to transfer property.

        There are plenty of single parent households that do just fine. Your argument is flawed. You do not know what kids 'need'.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:01 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Sam, are you an atheist?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          GetLoss, are you on break from your McJob?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:05 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Afraid to answer me Sam?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Oh my gosh, that is so persuasive! You almost had me there.

          Go away, creepy weirdo.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Are you ashamed of telling everyone that you're in fact an atheist Sam? I thought atheists were suppose to be honest.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:27 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I'm afraid if I say something like that to you, you'll come, and that's just sinful! Dirty pervert! Deviant!!

          March 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I think that the minute you will admit being an atheist you will loose any credibility, is that what you're afraid of?

          March 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Da fuq? Where does your logic come from...

          March 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          Hit a nerve Sam?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:00 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Funny bone, actually.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:24 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          So what are you? A wiccan or a gay atheist? or maybe just both?

          March 13, 2013 at 12:44 am | Report abuse |
        • GetLoss

          I like turtles

          March 13, 2013 at 2:25 am | Report abuse |
      • Peapod

        First of all we ALL have male and female in us, you included. To what degree is individual. And heterosexuals marry and too often dont even want the children they have. Lucky for them and the child, there are Heterosexuals who cannot conceive and gay couples who DO want them. Man/Woman" relationships" may generate but not necessarily grow families. for Gay couples gay marriage has really nothing to do with sex. Why do straight people immediately think of SEX when gay marriage is mentioned? and thats ALL they think of. And why do they think gay relationships are "deviant"? Straight couples becoming swingers, have abortions, divorcing multiple times, straight people are always in the news doing something sick, The only time you see gay couples on tv is when they are remodelling a house together. Crazy straight people everywhere making posts about gay sex like a deer in the headlights when someone says ...GAY MARRIAGE. yes, I said Gay Marriage not GAY SEX so pay attention. It's about commitment, not just sex and religion. And kids today don't care if their parents are gay, they see through the hate. We teach tolerance and equality to them dont' we? You don't see gay couples hurting, abusing, and abandoning their children. It speaks for itself but keep your blinders on and see what you want to see.

        March 12, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Report abuse |
  48. e

    To all the bible thumpers: wake up. Its happening whether or not you like it or not.

    March 12, 2013 at 9:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      They can't help it, they're still upset over the fact that darkies get to marry white wimmins.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:33 pm | Report abuse |
      • Michael

        Git yer hands of mah white wimmin!!!

        March 12, 2013 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Hide all yo white wimmins!!!

          March 12, 2013 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
  49. Keeping it real

    Since when do kids care what body parts someone has? This is ridiculous. Children need to be loved. Their parents sexual orientation is not important. Time to pull our heads out of the dark ages people! A country is not truly free until it's citizens can freely marry and love whom they choose!

    March 12, 2013 at 9:27 pm | Report abuse |
  50. Dave

    Folks, please, please, please... the only, ONLY, O-N-L-Y union that can create a human life is the union of a man and a woman. Nobody can deny that fact... Nobody... without a man and without a woman, there is no pro-creation... So why, dare I ask, can't the union be special in and of itself and be called a marriage? Why do Gays and Lesbians and whomever else have to get in the game when their union cannot create a human life? I understand the "rights" argument and let me tell you, as a Christian, I can't be judgmental of anyone – I'm just a big a sinner as anyone who has walked the face of the earth.. I'm just trying to say as in-articulately as is apparent, that marriage between a man and a women be "special", since it takes the union of a man and a woman (whether in a test tube, or in vitro etc...) to begin a life... May God have mercy on us all...

    March 12, 2013 at 9:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • Oliver Twist

      It's not just about procreating and the word 'marriage' is not copyrighted.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dave

        Nice Oliver, you've missed the point entirely...

        March 12, 2013 at 9:33 pm | Report abuse |
        • Oliver Twist

          You want special rights based on your beliefs.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
        • S

          If Christians want a different special word for the union of heterosexual couples, then they can create one. But 'marriage' existed before Christianity, so there's no reasons that Christians should have dibs. Just pick another word, and let everyone who wants use 'marriage'. And don't demand special tax breaks and laws for your special union.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Ok, then, infertile couples are no longer allowed to marry. How's that?

      No one cares about procreation. Stop making it the end all be all.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
      • Dave

        As is common in most of these venues, the discussion deteriorates... shaking this dust off my feet... later...

        March 12, 2013 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          It didn't deteriorate; you got what you asked for by posting a baseless, narrow, specious argument. Best to go now before you say something even dumber.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
        • Oliver Twist

          How did the discussion deteriorate? No one disparaged you, but your premise is questionable.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      Whats with the baby nonsense? There are married people that cannot conceive. What should they do? Cut each others throat? Considering how overpopulated the world is, we really don't need any more children.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ooky

      Fine off-topic articulation of your opinion that you don't want gay people to be allowed to be married. But this article is about gay couples adopting and how it fits in with existing laws.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • Christine

      I'm not trying to be a troll, here. I have a legitimate question that I think about when I hear that marriage is a framework for children and families to be raised. I am a married woman. My husband and I cannot have children for some unknown reason. Are we less married because our marriage will never result in children? Just curious about how your definition of marriage deals with couples like us.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        @christine.....These people think you're a farm animal. Only have s3x for children.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • trizzy78

        Christine,
        Let me say I think many believe they have good intentions. Some are purely mean and they spew out what they do straight from hate.

        The argument about not having children is just another grasp. That's all. There's nothing that could ever be legitimately argued to say your marriage is less valid from a biblical perspective, but then again, that's what I believe. We don't all agree.

        And as another point, not to be flippant, but a lot of what a marriage is and it's meaning to us today is very different from what is portrayed in the bible. Don't allow anyone to make you consider your marriage to be inferior in any way because of your circumstances.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:21 pm | Report abuse |
    • motionlessinpink

      Does that mean a married couple who cannot have children aren't really married ? Does that mean fornication is ok as long as it's a man and a woman ? Does that mean all these teenagers who are acting like dogs in heat and producing litters of children they don't even take decent care of are blessed by the Lord ? No !!! it does not. There I'm done, sorry didn't mean to rant.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • Josh

      I guess I don't really know what you're saying. You say that marriage of a man and woman should be consecrated as something special. I support that, fine. But why does that mean denying a gay couple the chance to raise a child? The argument comes down to:

      1. "God didn't intend it." Which is really hard for anyone to say, and the subject of millenia of debate.

      2. "That makes hetero marriage less special." Which is like saying your own daughter is less special if she doesn't go to a nice private school like someone else's daughter. What you mean is "that would make some hetero couples FEEL less special" and pardon me if I don't give a sh*t.

      3. "The kids will suffer from it." Which is actually really *easily* shown to be untrue by looking that the kids that are now becoming adults from these unions.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • Harnalfirin

      What people don't seem to realize is that marriage is much more than two people coming together in love; it's a legal contract that allows two people to file joint taxes, get hospital rights, etc. Marriage doesn't need to be a Christian event to be legally binding. Therefore, remove the Christian aspect from it, and there's nothing left to be against. Simply two people making a legally binding contract.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eyeroll

      Some heterosexual couples can't reproduce. Your argument is invalid.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Elect

      Unfortunately, some people do not grasp the totality of the situation. If gay couples want children they need the opposite sex to make that happen. When two men or two women can create life and give birth without the help of the opposite sex, then I may be supportive. Straight couples are not perfect and many marry for the wrong reason. A woman can raise a boy but she cannot be that male figure he needs in his life and vice versa for men and girls.
      I may be viewed an insensitive but we can agree to disagree regarding this matter. There is nothing natural about two men or two women being together sexually. I man enters a man where he discharges waste from his body…if that is natural then the world has gone mad. On the other hand…yes it has...

      March 13, 2013 at 12:34 am | Report abuse |
      • sam

        One word for your narrow minded post: NO.

        March 13, 2013 at 1:07 am | Report abuse |
  51. trizzy78

    A question for TJ follows the general question below.

    Here's what I'd like to see from those who are so against gay parenting:
    Proof of detriment from studies that are peer reviewed. By peers, I mean of a broad spectrum of specialists in their field of study from a broad demographic as well. I'm Christian, but honestly, Christian "science" is about the last thing I trust. It doesn't really mean much if your study says anything at all if it won't hold up too serious scrutiny.

    Additionally, taking a study of another out of context and using it to apply your view doesn't count unless making that point stands up to scrutiny as well. When the author of the study makes it clear that there's not enough information to draw your conclusion, or due to the subject of the study, you cannot reliably represent your point of view, then it doesn't count.

    @TJ – You sound like someone who really believes what they say. No problem. I don't know of what faith you belong to, if any, but if you're a Chrustian, let me ask you this: If you believe that homosexuality is wrong, and if that stems from your faith, AND you have research that produces results that shows homosexuality is detrimental and has negative consequences, why do you not release it for peer review. I know you stated that you have not done so essentially because of the backlash. I understand that concern, but if your conviction comes from your faith, I humbly ask why you are not so compelled to share the results of the said research? If it's so detrimental to people and society, and you've even discovered the causes of homosexuality, why would you withold such information. I'm honestly not trying to be condescending here. If you're not a Christian, well never mind. I'm sorry I wasted my time in asking.

    March 12, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      @Triz................There is NO PROOF of any kind. Don't hold your breath waiting for it. I've said it before. If having a mother and father for parents is sooooooo perfect. Why do gay kids come from straight parents? Dick Cheney has a lesbian daughter. Do you think Cheney led the type of life that would lead to a lesbian daughter. NO. Being gay is genetic. IT IS NOT A CHOICE. The bigots you read here are the same type of bigots you see wearing white hoods on their head. TJ is one of millions of them. The only way we can get rid of them is is to unfortunately wait for them to die out.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
      • MarioLuiggi

        Homosexuality is not genetic. If it was, homosexuals would disappear by natural selection. Besides, Gay groups funded many studies in teh 1980s to prove that a Gay gene could be identified. That was unsuccessful. Besides, if it was successful, a genetic treatment could potentially be found to "fix" the genome. Except for propaganda, science does not support that view. Homosexual behaviour is much more complex than just a genetic tendency (which may one day be identified). There are many reasons why people develop homosexual tendencies. Independent from why people develop or have the tendency,it is an unnatural tendency and should not be acted upon from a sexual perspcetive: gay sex would never generate life, the primary goal for sex. Sex between 2 women is unnatural but has low impact on health. Sex between 2 men however, is physically destructive, especially anal sex, as there is an incredible number of health issues associate with it including a 4000% higher level of anal and colon cancer amongst gay men. Anyway, anal sex is unnatural for heterosexual couples as well and should be avoided from a health perspective.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          More nonsense from a moron! Obviously you didn't understand what i wrote. Gays come from straight couples. As long as their are straight couples, you'll have gay people. Sorry that is the way it is. Gay people will never disappear unless you get rid of straight people! How ironic.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Where did you get your 'facts', Mario? Are you going to post anything that even comes close to accurate, or is this the best you can do?

          March 12, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Report abuse |
        • trizzy78

          Let me reiterate- Produce results of the above criteria. Comments with arbitrary information do not produce anything of real value in relation to my challenge.

          Also, lets stick to the question at hand: gay marriage and adoption and the impact it has on those involved.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:07 pm | Report abuse |
        • oldowl

          MarioLuiggi: You are so full of crap, I don't see how you can take a bite without $ h ! tt ! n g your pants.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:03 am | Report abuse |
        • sam

          oldowl, I've never heard that one before, and I am legit crying. I'm going to steal that.

          March 13, 2013 at 12:33 am | Report abuse |
      • trizzy78

        Ken,

        You're preaching to the choir. Gay here, 10 year relationship, soon to be adoptive father and fortunately in a state where both of us have full legal custody and rights as any other couple. I'm calling people out on their claims and on the basis of the beliefs that push them to so passionately believe. If they are so passionate and it's so critical, is it ethical within their belief system to withold?

        There are plenty out there who are as you say, but there are many who are changing as well. I know from personal experience. Many are changing their views and it's not by their dying out. The crux of it is they need exposure. That requires that they be able to work through their issues with someone so is gay. Don't get me wrong, I totally respect that there are many out there who've been terribly burned by the church and want nothing to do with it. I want to be clear I'm not asking or telling you that you need to be that person, just that we exist and positive change is happening. You are right though, some of it is simply dying out.

        I'm pushing others to hold up to integrity. It doesn't count when you'd spin the work of others to say what you want, nor does it count to do "science" that cannot hold up to the scrutiny of the audience outside of your immediate group that holds tightly to your viewpoint.

        Finally, my last point is that if someone has information that's so valuable to the public and they are witholding it for fear of the backlash, well if you're a Christian I think you should not withold it. It doesn't mean you force it on people, but if you're convinced it's the truth, don't you have some obligation to share it?

        March 12, 2013 at 9:51 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Good luck Triz!

          For some reason, your happiness apparently threatens the happiness of others. Where they got that paranoia...I don't know, must have been from their 'traditional' family.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        @Triz............First of all congrats. Much happiness to you and your family. They have nothing to share. No knowledge to spread. Hit them with logic and their argument fizzles. Once the supreme court overturns DOMA and people see that gay marriage will not end the world. This nonsense will stop.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • ramon

      A Christian is a person that follows Christianity, which means the teaching of Christ and the Bible. The Lord said homosexuality is a sin, and if you think is right then you are anti-christ and not a Christian. Read Romans 1.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:37 pm | Report abuse |
      • motionlessinpink

        I hope you don't eat shellfish or pork or cut your hair or have relations with your spouse except for procreation because all those things are named in the same Bible passage as sins. Those are Civilization Laws not the Ten Commandments. I politely disagree.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        YOU go read it, I don't care about a religion that worries more about what people do in bed than it does helping those who are unfortunate.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • oldowl

        Ramon, pick up your Bible and read it. Then simply send me the biblical reference in which "the Lord said homosexuality was a sin." It can't be Romans 1, b/c the Lord spoke not one word in this chapter, but you say "the Lord said..." Where? I have never come across one passage in the Bible where God or the Lord bothered to mention homosexuality, and you seem content to spend your life putting words in God's mouth that have never been there. Yet your standard for being a Christian is to follow Christianity. My standard is to follow Christ. Christianity has been warped beyond all recognition by people like you who spend their lifetimes trying to make Christ say something which he DID NOT SAY! You need to convert from whatever hate religion/false religion you are staking your claims on, repent, and follow Jesus, rather than requiring that he or his children follow you.

        March 13, 2013 at 12:20 am | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      @ramon.......Where was Christianity when the priest was molesting boys and the leaders of the church covered it up?

      March 12, 2013 at 9:45 pm | Report abuse |
  52. ramon

    "The unnatural is not, and will never be normal"

    March 12, 2013 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Oliver Twist

      Like flying in an airplane or using currency.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
      • trizzy78

        Yeah, the "normal" or "natural" argument is so subjective anyway. Seriously, in my mind, anything that has potential to occur or exist could technically be considered "normal" or "natural." Can something exist if it's unnatural?

        It's a point that cannot even be discussed in such a way that it really convinces anyone, but it's easy to throw out as a pithy argument.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • e

      normal. what is considered normal nowadays? there is no manual in life for normal. But, I do know that there are many children in foster homes and adoption agencys who are not even read a single book once a day. Given the choice of what to have for dinner, or what park they would like to vist. think about it. Still better for them to be raised in an orphanage & never given the chance to have their own family that would provide & educate? step outisde the box. Time have changed. Period.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:27 pm | Report abuse |
      • e

        I welcome a reply

        March 12, 2013 at 9:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      If it exists, it's natural. Go soak your head.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • Harry

      Interesting... yet homosexuality has been proven to exist in over 450 species in NATURE yet homophobia only exists in ONE which is the human race... i think that natural's definition involves something that occurs in nature... bases on the facts of science... the only thing unnatural is denying that homosexuals are natural and therefore normal as far as nature AND God's creations are concerned. :) Have a good day.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • oldowl

      Ramon, you are NOT NORMAL, and your trite and false cliches will never make you so. Get some professional help!

      March 13, 2013 at 12:23 am | Report abuse |
  53. Bobo

    Wow, as a Canadian, the USA seems like a backwards country.

    March 12, 2013 at 8:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • the middle man

      As an American I know that they love to spread them some hate.....so watch out here it comes.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Concerned

      I can't wait till the Supreme Court upholds DOMA this year and silence the degenerates. Marriage should always be defined as a union between a man and a woman.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        You're adorable! Do you have any other jokes?

        March 12, 2013 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • Lee McBride

        DOMA will probably be thrown out as unconstitutional. However, state's rights will probably prevail. I doubt that the SCOTUS will do another Roe v. Wade type decision and force gay marriage down America's throat like it did abortion. Time will tell.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          Abortion is not forced down your throat. Women have the choice. You are not forced to have an abortion. The states rights argument wont work. There are several states that have legalized gay marriage. If a straight couple and a gay couple get married in one of those states, they BOTH MUST have the same marriage rights when entering another state. If you can pick and choose which couple has rights, you could use the same logic to apply to ethnicity. You can discriminate against one and not the other in other states.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:32 pm | Report abuse |
      • David in NC

        Hey, when we're done the homos we can get working on putting the jews and blacks back in their place. Or maybe you will develop some empathy and treat your fellow human beings as your fellow human beings.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
    • J-Pap

      So glad I live in Vancouver and not Seatlle.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • MrHat

      Why didn't your deviant loving country open a special visa program for the perverts. That way they can populate your country and we don't have to worry about them anymore. Of course they did not do that because deviants are not wanted in Canada either.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Sounds like you got your passport taken away! What kind of deviant are you?

        March 12, 2013 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Kevin H

      Sadly the United States is backward. Our belief system somehow takes the secular out of the state and puts God in. Not just any God but a Christian, Jewish, Muslim God that despises anyone that doesn't conceive and bare children "missionary" style. I once thought my native Michigan was enlightened but over the past forty years it has become more and more religious. The zealotry and bigotry one would expect below the bible belt is alive and well in the motor city and beyond. Our country is about to face a showdown. I warned our legislators in Washington at least a decade ago that we were very near civil war in this country. The divide between the haves and have nots, between the righteous and the meek was nearer to us than we could ever think. LGBT people are not going to allow the most conservative in this country, the vocal majority to reign supreme. These, the wealthiest, the loudest, the most right-wing are determined to maintain control at any cost. Their days are numbered. They've had their fifteen minutes. People of any faith, creed, color or sexual orientation who meet base criteria should be allowed to adopt. To SCOM, SCOTUS, if you cannot uphold your duty the country will do what it needs to do and you will divide the nation. Those who believe might does not make right warn the rest of you – your are done!

      March 12, 2013 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • Lee McBride

        No Kevin, sadly YOU are right. Gay "rights" probably will prevail for a time as this was prophesied to occur towards the end of the "last days" prior to Christ's return. It should come as no surprise that as the world moves farther and farther from God and His Word, that more sexual perversion (including homosexuality) will become the "new normal". Fortunately this will not stand forever. Hey, but what do I know, I'm just another religious bigot.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          There are no end times. You're a crank. One day we'll be lucky enough in this country not to be ass high in evangelicals.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • Please

          Your savior's not coming. The only perversion here is you and your BS.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:37 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          Please stop with the religious bs. Gays got here the same way straight people got here. Their parents had s3x. The father came. nine months later baby. Religious people lie to say "we are children of god" If so count gays in also.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:42 pm | Report abuse |
        • Jenn

          So the US is so special that only they can provoke the end of days? There are MANY countries that recognize same sex marriage, but God is okay with that, it is the US of A that is the only country that matters to God. LOL so so funny! Get over yourselves.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:09 pm | Report abuse |
        • Homefry

          I hope the end times come soon so no one has to listen to some of you bitch about it all the time

          March 12, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • GetLoss

      I agree with you Bobo.

      March 12, 2013 at 11:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Hey, are you one of those folks who'll agree to anything??

        March 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Report abuse |
  54. TruthandConsequence

    No mother, no father and no family. These concoctions of the modern age which make families where none are possible eat away at our human dignity and the rights of children to have parents. We have created a no holds barred environment supported by politically laden "studies" and heavily lobbied legislators to reverse the course of humankind. It is a pity what we are doing to ourselves and to our children's future. Nothing goes unpaid.

    March 12, 2013 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      @Truth....... I remember reading your posts on other subjects. They didn't make much sense there either.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • Edwin

      I agree with Truth. It is always sad when parents teach their children to value hate more than love.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • DarrellSF

      And yet my straight mother put me up for adoption, and then abandoned me a second time after we reunited.

      And my straight adoptive parents abused me throughout my lifetime with them.

      Mother, Father, Family, and such have no meaning other than the ones we as human beings create for ourselves. Gays and Lesbians and Bisexuals and Transgendered Human Beings are just as equally capable of being good parents or bad parents.

      Enough of your nonsense, especially when it's been used to justify the relegation of human beings to second-class (or less) status in the United States.

      Equality for ALL couples and ALL families! Make laws that INCREASE the possibility of success for ALL our children. Make laws that create a society that values all it's members so we respect and love each other without discrimination. Only THEN will you have happily raised children who have a chance at a happy life.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • Boruch N. Hoffinger

        Dear 'DarrellSF,
        You are comparing a good-hearted 'gay' person (Perhaps sick...afraid of men or women) to a 'sick' or
        'evil-hearted' 'straight' person or couple.
        Why not be consistent and compare a 'good-hearted' 'straight' couple (Or person) to a 'good-hearted'
        gay couple (Or person)?
        It's not healthy or normal for two men or women, no matter who, to raise a child.
        G-d created a man and a woman...male and female are necessary for a healthy upbringing.
        The recent surge is 'liberalism' is based on a desire for votes or money.
        The politicians don't care about the welfare of their constituents...it's all vanity and self-interest.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:03 pm | Report abuse |
        • David in NC

          None of your assertions are backed up by reality. In other words, your fairy tales simply backup your preconceived notions.

          March 12, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      @edwin....I'm not sure that is what truth is posting. I read it as anti gay bigotry. I don't see it as teaching children to hate.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • Boruch N. Hoffinger

        There's no such thing as 'Anti gay bigotry.'
        G-d said that homosexuality is 'an abomination' and that's what it is.
        Lesbianism is not considered the same as homosexuality because the man
        has 'seed.' G-d created something from nothing and brought life, so He wants us
        to be like HIm. Sometimes we throw this precious gift away.
        I'm a grandfather.
        Check out: 'The 7 Noahide Laws' Most Americans never heard about this.
        bhoffinger@aol.com

        March 12, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Thanks for giving us all your email address, dumbass.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:30 pm | Report abuse |
        • Oliver Twist

          If the man has 'seed', what does the woman have?

          March 12, 2013 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Oliver Twist

      Let it out stud. Marriage equality is about to become the law of the land.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • Lee McBride

        Marriage "equality" is such a crock. That's like saying two left shoes make a pair.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:35 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Sorry, Lee, you dinosaurs are on borrowed time.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • ramon

      That also happened to my dog rufus, he is not weird or unnatural at all! he was actually born that way, he fell inlove with a male donkey, my dog rufus felt on the inside he was a female donkey, but on the outside he was as a chihuahua male dog "not his fault at all his brain was ok!" anyway they adopted some chickens and the donkey took them away from rufus!

      March 12, 2013 at 8:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • H. Lee

      We may need to look back and remember that children didn't always have a great existence in the "good old days," either. Before the 1960s and '70s, before Roe vs. Wade and the de-shaming of unwed mothers, orphanages were crammed with unwanted kids, and their lives there were pretty grim. As an old woman, I've talked to some survivors of such places. A child who was lucky enough to be adopted was rare indeed.

      And then, the lot of kids from the earlier part of the 20th century and back was not great even if they were born to a "stable" family. Kids could be and were punished and beaten terribly with no interference from the authorities - it was standard discipline. Children as young as six worked in the factories in the North and the fields in the South, putting in 12 and 14-hour days with, again, the perfect agreement of government at all levels. And remember the pictures of the poor whites in the Depression? *Some* children - middle and upper-income whites, mainly - lived very well indeed, but millions of others suffered under conditions that would be unthinkable nowadays.

      However strange the conception arrangements which led to these children, the children themselves probably stand a better chance for a good life than if they had been born to the "wrong" family 100 years ago. In any case, it's their welfare here that should concern us. Of course, once gay people can marry legally - it's coming, probably quite soon - then some of them will also divorce, just as heteros do. And the pain of the children in a gay divorce is not going to be greater or less than the pain of children of a straight divorce. The children are the most important ones in this story and any other story of divorce, and while I'm sorry for the gay mom whom CNN interviewed, she's no different than any other parent who loses custody of her children.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • jungleboo

        I like your train of thought, H. Lee. Only since Victorian times have children received the glinting shine of being "precious". Children were historically looked on as a help in the household or in the family business after a mere 5 or 6 years of life.

        School, per se, was out of the question except for the wealthy. America gave us compulsory education for all children in the 1870s, but that was born of the outlook that factory workers needed to be trained in ABCs and 123s.

        So this garbage about the ruination of children's precious lives at the hands of the LGBT community is ridiculous. In 1850, there were 30,000 unwanted/orphaned/vagrant children on the streets of NYC alone, not to mention Phila, DC, Baltimore or Boston. Charles William Brace founded The Childrens Aid Society in 1855 to try to deal with the dire situation in New York City. He created The Orphan Train, sending more than 200,000 children out West to the farms and families that needed workers (or family) right away. The Orphan Train worked up until 1929.

        So, as far as "straights" being the saviours of society, well....I think not...

        March 12, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Hush up, drama llama. There are many kinds of families.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
  55. Hello

    that heartless Becky will someday pay for her hatefulness. like she will never imagine. My heart breaks for Marie...
    i am so sorry for you deal lady... As a heterosexual once married woman- I too lost my kids.. by an evil man who managed to convince my grown kids I was not good enough for them and to abandon me. There was or is nothing I can do or say to get my kids back.. I truly know your pain. Hateful heartless people enjoy the pain the give to their victims....They never see the pain they give others.. They have no humanity in them.. and never will.

    March 12, 2013 at 8:07 pm | Report abuse |
  56. George

    Sick that gay people want to drag kids into their dysfunction. Be gay if you so choose, just leave innocent kids out of it.

    March 12, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pmdww2

      Children raised by gay couples show no appreciable differences from children raised by straight couples according to the American Psychological Association.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:20 pm | Report abuse |
      • kentuckian

        They and you lie.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:33 pm | Report abuse |
        • the middle man

          The only hateful and unwelcoming people of this society these kids will encounter. are those like you. You know if you really believed in God you would love the children and the sinners like Jesus did. i don't live by your religion but i know more about it than you, how are you going to respond to God when he asks you why that is some day?

          March 12, 2013 at 8:42 pm | Report abuse |
        • kentuckian

          the middle man, you must not know anything about God or Jesus Christ. God andJesus Christ love all of God's children, but hate sin. Read the bible and count the number of times God hated! When my savior returns, he is coming as Lord of Lords, King of Kings and will eliminate sin with a sword. Please continue to read the bible...........

          March 12, 2013 at 9:09 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          How the hell would you even know? Because your narrow shitkicker worldview says so?

          March 12, 2013 at 9:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      @george...................It's not like ALL marriages are perfect. Divorce affects kids. Violence at home affects kids, drinking, drugs etc all affect kids. Keep in mind gay kids come from straight parents. So if marriage is so "perfect" for kids, how come their are gay people period.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • DX

        Well, you're assuming that being gay is genetic. That's impossible, since they would tend not to have offspring and any gene would be weeded out of the pool.

        There's not necessarily a single cause, but developmental defects would be the most probable. Girls who produce too much testosterone and guys who produce too much estrogen at early developmental stages. Could explain why gay men have common traits like being feminine. I can spot a gay man by their conduct during a conversation. But for those who don't exhibit feminine behavioral traits, it could be a psychological issue as well.

        Either way, I don't see a problem with being gay or having a gay marriage. Personally, a gay couple does not harm me and I have a few gay and lesbian friends. But to drag a child into an abnormal family structure is just wrong and destroys our society and family values. And yes, it is abnormal in every sense – whether you think of it as being against nature or against religion.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:50 pm | Report abuse |
        • Genetics

          Two things... 1) what do you think causes hormonal imbalances like too much testosterone or too much estrogen if not genetics? 2) not every genetic trait is dominant (or displayed), so for all you know you're a carrier of a gay gene. Better not reproduce, just in case, wouldn't want to pass it on.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
        • Heidi

          Just an FYI, not all gay men act feminine and not all lesbians act masculine. What you are talkiing about are stereotypes. There are gay men in the NFL and lesbian super models. Look around you, more and more people come out of the closet every day.

          March 12, 2013 at 11:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        @DX............I do think gay is genetic. It is not a "choice" How would you explain a straight couple having a gay child? If the straight couple is living a straight "life" How could their child turn out gay? It also proves that being raised by a gay or lesbian couple does not mean you will turn out gay or lesbian.

        You know that children have been harmed in "straight" homes. Divorce, violence, drugs all play a part. That is why bigotry towards gays and lesbians makes no sense.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • ramon

      The worst thing is that sometimes these kids are abused by these people with sexual problems. And if not, these kids grow up with a twisted mentality, morality, and misperception of reallity as they are brainwashed by these people telling them that what they do is ok. I'm not prefect and have problems too, but I dont try to say my problems are normal! and i dont try to make everybody else believe they are, "but the unnatural is never normal".

      March 12, 2013 at 9:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • Kathleen

        Um, since virtually all child molesters are male (and heterosexual), a kid with two lesbian moms is about as safe as they could possibly be. Now, when do we start outlawing heterosexual marriage because it introduces the risk of male heterosexuals into an otherwise safe family?

        March 12, 2013 at 9:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      I hope you don't have any access to kids, you seem like some backwards old codger.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Boruch N. Hoffinger

      Dear 'George,'
      Right on!
      Sometimes our selfish and vain government helps them.
      Anything for a vote!
      'The blind leading the blind.'
      Check out: 'The 7 Noahide Laws' I started a class in this in Crown Heights, Brookllyn NY
      These laws are U.S. Public Law 102-14
      bhoffinger@aol.com

      March 12, 2013 at 9:11 pm | Report abuse |
    • jms5353

      And straight people are not disfunctional? There are many straight people I know who are disfunctional. Who likes to party all night or puts their friends over their kids. I even know straight people who had a family because it "looked good". Then they complain that they have kids and wished they did not. Those children of those disfunctional straight families grow in a sad environment.

      I may disagree with those disfunctional straight families but I am respectful. Maybe you can be too.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:33 pm | Report abuse |
  57. kentuckian

    You’re behavior affects more people in society than you believe. Homosexuals don't care about anyone else but themselves and their gratifications. Morals govern public behavior and our laws since the beginning of this country. There is a right and there is a wrong. Homosexual behavior is WRONG and Homosexual adoption is WRONG@!

    March 12, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      you're behavior? I'm assuming you meant your behavior. The only thing wrong is people like you filled with hatred living in this world. You are a small fish in a very big pond, no one cares about your nasty opinion, what makes so perfect and gives you the right to judge others? Think long and hard about yourself before casting your opinion onto others.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:22 pm | Report abuse |
      • kentuckian

        sam(Sadistic Adolescent Molester), what have you been doing all day? You have kept telling everyone that they are wrong about homosexuals. Homosexuals only care about themselves..............you are the example!

        March 12, 2013 at 8:27 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          That's a different sam, dumbass. I see you're still as pithy and boring as you were earlier.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • mudmn

          Troll detected!

          March 12, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • westsacvoice

      There is a difference between legal and moral laws. It is immoral to commit adultery but there is nothing illegal about it. It also does not necessarily end a marriage either. You need to define "wrong" and "right" based on the moral's of society. In some countries, it is "wrong" to show your face and you must be clothed from head to toe. Yet it is not here. In some religions, divorce is not allowed and yet we have a veritable industry to facilitate divorce. And believe me, divorce does a lot of harm to children in families and their relationships. Infidelity does a lot of harm. Yet the law can't prevent divorces. I believe the law should not prevent same sex couples from getting married because if married was truly sacred, they would outlaw divorce.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:26 pm | Report abuse |
      • kentuckian

        What country do you live in? I live in The United States of America. Move to Canada if you believe as they believe! Don't try to make the majority accept a very small percentage beliefs. I don't believe homosexuals should be able to marry or adopt children!

        March 12, 2013 at 8:37 pm | Report abuse |
        • the middle man

          You sound like the type of person that would kill your children if you found out they were gay.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:47 pm | Report abuse |
        • the middle man

          I am not a Christian but I apologize for my last comment because even though you may not know I realize that you aim in life to live by the words inspired by God in 1 Corinthians 4:5..........

          " Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

          Pretty universal I guess, he forgives you, he will forgive them, you can forgive them too. God Bless You.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • LizardMom

        If a country chooses to align itself with the Roman Catholic Church's teaching regarding homosexuality as a sin, then Canada would have to prohibit homosexual marriage. If not, there is no issue.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pmdww2

      You are free to have whatever opinion you want about homosexuality. However, you are not free to use your opinion to deny gays legal equality, including adoption. Professional mental health associations state that children raised by gay parents do not differ markedly from children raised by straight parents.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:27 pm | Report abuse |
      • kentuckian

        Again, they and you lie.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:38 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Hush up, shitkicker.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bryant

        It does not by any means imply that they are not bullied. A child with gay parents will have a much worse time in social situations then someone with normal straight parents. I happen to know several students at my school that have gay parents, and trust me, they are made fun of, a lot. I have no problem with gay people in general and them getting married, but I think that kids should be kept out of the equation.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • geggyg

      Im gay , ands love my partner of 20 years , care about my family , brought my partners father to live with us when he needed care , care about my neighbours and care about about the needy in society , care about the environment , how dare you make a blanket statement that all gay people dont care for anyone but themself. I even care about you , and hope in the years ahead you dont get treated by bigoted people as you treat gay people .
      Do you critisise as forcefully infertile heterosexual couples who use donor sperm and deny the chilld knowledge and dealings with the biogical father and going against gods wishes ( he obviously dint want them to get pregnant for whatever reason ) and taking his power to create life( that bit was sarcasm) . Do you critisise as forcefully heterosexuals who leave a marriage just after a child is born , or if the child is disabled and they say they cant cope ( that can be either a man or woman leaving )

      March 12, 2013 at 8:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • tim

        you know geggyg...there is hope. Most of my family are so conservative they make Ron Paul look liberal. I almost got disowned because I accidently slipped at dinner one night and said I had voted for Kerry. For this reason, I never officially 'came out' to them. But over time, they figured it out. One year it was a suggestion to bring my 'friend' to Christmas celebrations. The next years was the demand to bring him to Christmas celebrations. Then matriarchal edict that I was never to visit without him.
        Then after my state passed same sex marriage, he and I started discussion getting married. I was not officially out to my family so that really was my only issue. Then at a family funeral my sister-in-law in a truly sister-in-law fashion caught me off guard and asked me "When are going to marry him?" I was so shocked by it, I gave the date.
        After that, it was out of my control. He and I got married in NY, but were required to go to NC for a reception for the family. I have never been so proud of my family.

        But when my liberal gay buds get talking about ultraconservative Tea Party people...I just calmly look them in the eye and say "you are talking about my mother, so tread lightly.'

        March 12, 2013 at 9:31 pm | Report abuse |
    • tim

      Hey man, just how many gay people do you know? Your comments suggest to me that you don't know any. Most of our existence is devoted to the same things all of humanity is. Finding affordable housing, putting food on the table, paying our taxes, being as good neighbors as we can. Only to be traumatized by the legal dance we have to do just to legally ensure that if something happens to me, my partner isn't sent into bankruptcy. If I thought this entire arguments was related to backward moral codes that really are thankfully passing with the winds of time, I would definitely be unimpressed as I was when I choose to leave my home state that just recently passed a gay marriage ban. But as someone once told me, follow the money, this entire argument is about keeping my partner having legal rights to what any other spouse would get: tax breaks, social security benefits and legal right to my retirement be it a pension or 401(K).

      So should I tell you what my Yankee neighbors think of Kentuckians......And of course, they get the same lecture....just how many Kentuckians do you actually know.......

      March 12, 2013 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      How many times are you going to shovel the same bullsit only to be told you're wrong? Is this a redneck specialty, this trait?

      March 12, 2013 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • tim

        So sam, just how many rednecks do you know......

        March 12, 2013 at 9:33 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          ::rim shot:: A lot!

          March 12, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
        • tim

          well, howdy then, you just met another one.

          March 13, 2013 at 2:45 am | Report abuse |
  58. glkdrmvrldkm

    Who the shit cares if they're lesbian or not. Their marriage and ability to raise children aren't affecting others, is it? Are you living their life? Don't think so. They can do what ever they want to be happy. Sucks that some people don't realize that. Just because the Bible says you should live a certain way of life doesn't mean everyone MUST follow it.

    March 12, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • TJ

      Ingenious screenname. It matches you post to a "T" (and makes as much sense).

      March 12, 2013 at 8:01 pm | Report abuse |
  59. Jim

    Kids need a mom and a dad, not a mom and a mom who tries to act like a man. Liberals are the reason this country is falling apart. Liberals who support this way of thinking need to come out of the closet themselves.

    March 12, 2013 at 7:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • ya rights

      O please do tell us who made that rule? To each their own and let God sort it out.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "Kids need a mom and a dad, not a mom and a mom who tries to act like a man. L"

      It has nothing to do with being liberal and every thing to do with what the research has shown. Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Report abuse |
      • kentuckian

        Your GED Social Science lied! Same sex couples are worse parents children could have!
        Why do homosexuals lie so much to have their own way? That's the only way you could ever convience anyone is with a lie. No matter how many times you tell a lie, it's still a lie!

        March 12, 2013 at 8:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • Treez

          You are a snarling ignorant boob.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
        • Sarah

          Seriously one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read. Please educate yourself.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          @Kentucky.............The possibility you voted for Mitch McConnell pretty much disqualifies whatever you post.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:35 pm | Report abuse |
        • mudmn

          Please, people, this is a troll! don't feed trolls!

          March 12, 2013 at 9:20 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Another nice christian, doing what they do.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:26 pm | Report abuse |
      • Facts are Facts

        Every gay couple needs someone outside their relationship to have kids. What happens when the child grows up and finds out about the biological father or mother? How many kids can a gay couple adopt this way? With gay couples increasing over time, the birth rate throughout society will continue to fall. We will then start seeing negative population growth. This is already happening in several western countries. Countries with negative population growth will eventually become dictatorships since the indigenous people will be in the minority and immigrants with higher birth rates will become the majority.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Jesus Christ, how do you sleep at night with all those brown people and gays so close to fucking up the world??

          March 12, 2013 at 9:27 pm | Report abuse |
        • tim

          I couldn't be because Western nations have a low infant mortality rate, meaning a family does not need to have 10 children in hope that two will live into adulthood. Do they teach history in school anymore? If you missed it, there is something called 'The History Channel.'

          March 12, 2013 at 9:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      When the DOW almost went down the toilet and the country almost went into a depression. Who was in the White House? I believe it was George "Dubya" Bush. He's not a liberal.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • nunya

      Jim, You could not be further from the truth.. Whats causing this country to fall apart is Republicans using 2 wars to line thier pockets via the military industrial complex. You my friend can put your head in the sand if you want to... As I always say, go now and wait for high tide..... You are a biggot!

      March 12, 2013 at 8:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • George

      Kids need a Male role model and a Mother. Just look how girls turn out that don't have a positive male role model in their life. Allowing gay couples to adopt kids is twisted in every way...

      March 12, 2013 at 8:07 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        @george.....You need to pull your head out your AZZ. Their are plenty of single parents that do a great job raising their children, just as their are married couples the do a poor job raising their kids.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:29 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ant

        Every reputable mental health and pediatric society in this country disagrees with you.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • westsacvoice

      So what do you say to heterosexual parents getting a divorce? What do you say to single parents? Do you say, go get a man or woman so the kids have a "mom" and a "dad". Let's not forget there are also kids with both a "mom" and a "dad" which does not mean they have a good and healthy home life. Mom and dad could be working all day and have little or no time for kids (latch-key kids). They could be abused. Your rule is bogus. Kids need love, support, guidance, etc. But a standard "mom" and "dad" no longer applies in today's society.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • Kathy

      Really??? Kids need a Mom and Dad??? So, if parents get divorced, should they loose their children? If a man walks out on his wife, should she then loose the kids??? How about if the mother gets arrested, should the father then loose the kids??? How about if both parents die, should grandma not be allowed to raise the children if she isalone?What about all of the children in foster care? If there isn't a married husband and wife willing to care for them, then with should put them in an institution????

      March 12, 2013 at 8:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Jim, don't you have some lesbian p0rn to watch, you hypocrite?

      March 12, 2013 at 9:19 pm | Report abuse |
  60. gclaheh

    I think that it is very sad that the focus of this whole case is on the two parents involved instead of the children. These children will never get a chance to know their biological father and will be denied that right. And for what reason? Because these two selfish women in an unnatural and uncommited relationship decided that they wanted to have children. When the relationship fizzled, the non-biological and non-legal guardian wants visitation rights. Has this woman ever thought this through and what effect her being involved in these children't lives will have on them? Her being involved will only create conflict with the biological parent, which will harm those children. If she truly cared about those children, she would move on and let them move on as well.

    Before anyone calls me homophobic or gay hating, let me just say this. I feel that it is just as wrong for a single woman to go out and get pregnant or get in-vitro fertilization because she is ready to have a child. Children deserve the very best, which means being raised by a mother and a father in a legally committed relationship.

    March 12, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • TJ

      Welcome to the "new" morality, where right is wrong, and wrong is right. Moral codes that were once followed (with good and sound reasoning) have been ditched in pursuit of "feel good" morality (aka, no morals). Today doing what's "right" is too hard for people, especially when a large number of (liberal) people say anything is right, as long as it feels good.

      It's not hard to see, if one is truly objective. And, you'll not only find this mentality with liberals, but also with neo-cons, fascists, communists, anarchists, and so on. Doing what's "wrong" is infectious... hard to resist, like having that extra slice of cake when no one is looking, savoriing it, even though all that sugar is harmful to the body. Just don't tell that to the person eating the cake. They're too busy enjoying it to be bothered with what's "healthy" (aka "good") and what is not.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        You'll also find it with evangelical douches like yourself.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "Because these two selfish women in an unnatural and uncommited relationship"

      That's why they went through the hassle of getting married to each other even though it wasn't legal. The experts have shown that like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

      Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

      A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

      Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:01 pm | Report abuse |
  61. the middle man

    ACCORDING TO THIS DISREGARD AND DISRESPECT FOR A WOMAN'S EXISTENCE MUCH LESS HER RIGHTS, A GAY WOMAN DOESN'T STAND A CHANCE IN THE FUTURE.

    This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

    4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

    5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

    6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

    7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

    8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

    9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

    10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

    11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.

    12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:

    13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

    14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.

    15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:

    16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:

    17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.

    18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

    19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

    20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

    21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

    22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

    23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

    24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

    25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:

    26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

    27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

    28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

    29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

    30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:

    31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

    32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

    THERE IS A LONG HISTORY BEHIND THE DEBATE OF INEQUALITY THAT STEMS FROM THEOLOGY

    March 12, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • glkdrmvrldkm

      You're talking about one person's way of life.... not the rest of the world. have fun

      March 12, 2013 at 7:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • the middle man

        Why can't I question the theology that drives the intolerance?

        If you can quote it here.........I can debate its validity.........without that dialogue the nation you think you are preserving does not exist.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:34 pm | Report abuse |
  62. BK

    http://www.aclumich.org/issues/lgbt-rights/2012-12/1790

    March 12, 2013 at 7:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • BK

      There is hope. There have been (2) MI Court of Appeal decisions that have been made in favor of parents like Marie.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:53 pm | Report abuse |
      • Hello

        I hope so.....

        March 12, 2013 at 8:28 pm | Report abuse |
  63. TJ

    Reply to "REALLY?":

    Gays (heterophobes) share all the exact same rights as straight people have. No difference.

    A hetero man cannot marry another hetero man. A gay person can choose to marry someone of the opposite gender.

    What gays want are special rights because they choose a certain lifestyle. To think otherwise is to think like an imbecile. But then, that's now many gays and their supporters think. For them, it's all about the "me, me, me" of it all.

    If gays are "born" that way, then so are pedos, and others who practice deviant sexuaI behaviors. And if gays are to be with any sense of "normalcy", then so should other sexuaI deviants. And if gays are to be granted special rights, then so should ALL sexuaI deviants. After all, they're "born" that way.

    You gays and your supporters can attempt to justify, rationalize, and legitimize gay sexuaI behavior, but then what else could you do? I mean, even the nazis did the same, and the Khmer Rouge, NAMBLA, and al Qeida. Talk to any of them and you'll find they do just as you do to the rest of the world; justify, rationalize, and legitimize.

    As they go, so go gays.

    March 12, 2013 at 7:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "If gays are "born" that way, then so are pedos, and others who practice deviant sexuaI behaviors."

      What I am stating is from the hundreds of thousands of experts in this country with decades of research. All you've been stating is your prejudice opinion. BIG difference.

      Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      The other "sexual deviant" behavior you are referring to brings harm to either children or animals plus neither can consent and both are still illegal. LOL!

      How many handles are you going to post this under.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • TJ

        Child, there you go quoting foolish sources (ex-spurts, aka drips under pressure). One of my three companies is a research firm. We spent nearly twenty years researching mental health, human sexuality, legal issues, Constitutional research, and analytical statistical research. Do you REALLY want to go there with me, because I'll leave you standing in the middle of town with your panties around your ankles?

        All those mental health (MH) orgs that you quote we have proven to be disingenuous, with ulterior motives and agendas that you can't even begin to imagine. And of the professionals who make of those orgs? Their science is not science at all; it is NOT empirical (as they'd have you believe), it is NOT tangible, and the variables are infinite – too infinite for them to call their science a real "science". However, to quote Kipling here, they are the knaves who've woven a trap for fools like you.

        I should mention when we started our research, I thought much the same as you. And as you would do, so did I; I tried to prove what we found as being wrong, bias, and incorrect. But our findings were not, forcing me to understand things in a way you cannot begin to fathom.

        In part of our research we learned the when, where, how, and why gays choose to become gay (at various times in their lives). We have not published those works because of the havoc doing so would wreak.

        Come back when you're all educated and one of my peers (in the area of research) and THEN tell me your thoughts. Just remember to remain objective.

        Have a nice day.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:14 pm | Report abuse |
        • tim

          Then mate, as a legitiment researcher, you will kindly give us the publication where your work was peer reviewed and published.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • TJ

        Child, I have only ONE handle – this one (and one for the other CNN post forums, which is "GreatGrizzly". I don't need to play games kid – I'll leave that for others who think that's somehow "cool". It's not.

        Sorry, but you ASSumed again. You really need to stop that – it's well, kinda of juvenile.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      I don't know which is more outrageous, your ignorance or your bigotry. And to think you said you're a "teacher" Wow. I'm glad people like you are on the losing end. More states are accepting gay marriage and judging by your statements, you're from one of the states that legalized marijuana. With DOMA going down the drain and the supreme court eventually overturning any ban against gay marriage. I can happily hope you'll be one of those bigots that jumps off a bridge.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:56 pm | Report abuse |
      • TJ

        Child, there you go quoting foolish sources (ex-spurts, aka drips under pressure). One of my three companies is a research firm. We spent nearly twenty years researching mental health, human sexuality, legal issues, Constitutional research, and analytical statistical research. Do you REALLY want to go there with me, because I'll leave you standing in the middle of town with your panties around your ankles?

        All those mental health (MH) orgs that you quote we have proven to be disingenuous, with ulterior motives and agendas that you can't even begin to imagine. And of the professionals who make of those orgs? Their science is not science at all; it is NOT empirical (as they'd have you believe), it is NOT tangible, and the variables are infinite – too infinite for them to call their science a real "science". However, to quote Kipling here, they are the knaves who've woven a trap for fools like you.

        I should mention when we started our research, I thought much the same as you. And as you would do, so did I; I tried to prove what we found as being wrong, bias, and incorrect. But our findings were not, forcing me to understand things in a way you cannot begin to fathom.

        In part of our research we learned the when, where, how, and why gays choose to become gay (at various times in their lives). We have not published those works because of the havoc doing so would wreak.

        Come back when you're all educated and one of my peers (in the area of research) and THEN tell me your thoughts. Just remember to remain objective.

        Have a nice day.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:10 pm | Report abuse |
        • TJ

          My reply above was for "REALLY?", and not for Ken. Ken's post isn't even worth dignifying. So full of his own asinine buIlshit, he ASSumes things about others he knows nothing about.

          Sorry little Ken, but dat's da truth son!

          March 12, 2013 at 8:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          You don't even know how to post, Yet we're supposed to take you seriously. Instead of teaching, you need to learn.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse |
        • alexh

          It amazes me about how sad our society is today. Here we have a poor, loving mother who is heartbroken because she just lost her child. Yet, half of the commentary on this story is ostracizing this poor woman for being herself. Just because she and her ex-partner are gay does not make them horrible people. Heterosexuals commit acts just as horrid as this and it disgusts me that our society is so oblivious and is capable of such undeserved hate. If you do not support homosexuals then that is your decision but do not call them monsters. You all need to grow up.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:34 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          TJ, I hope you figure out how to be less of an asshole someday.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      "A gay person can choose to marry someone of the opposite gender."

      Yo idiots every time you post this stupidity it shows the world you DON"T understand sexual orientation.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • Gingeet

      Gay/Lesbian individuals do not choose to be gay or lesbian.
      That's ridiculous.
      So what you are saying is that you yourself at some point in your life decided to be what would be termed "straight"?
      And you could at anytime "Choose" to be gay?
      Sorry but that logic is very far fetched.
      The comparison between pedophiles and gays is just as ridiculous.
      Give me a break and come up with an argument that is valid.
      Next...

      March 12, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Report abuse |
      • TJ

        Sorry, but you're post is 99% incorrect. I believe the word "to" was the only thing correct in your post.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:20 pm | Report abuse |
        • alexh

          Yeah because homosexuals choose to be despised by you morons. That's logical...

          March 12, 2013 at 8:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • chris

      The damn truth if I ever heard it , TJ.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • gays supporter

      1) Worst examples ever. The other examples you raised, are crimes because they cause harm to others who do not wish to receive harm...
      2) You are being a hypocrite. I find it hilarious you are too dumb to see that.
      3) Get your false facts straight. Civil union partners are not entitled to the same things that marriage partners are entitled to. Gays are not asking for "special rights" as you have quoted.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:01 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      I wish stupidity was physically painful, to help people like you learn.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:21 pm | Report abuse |
  64. m

    what don't you people get about this?

    the argument that we already have equal rights, that any man can marry any woman, and that is available to gay people too, is discriminatory as is is not a person of their choice. one person consenting to marry another person.
    my marriage may happen to be gay, yours straight, why does it matter. the key words here are two, consenting and adults.

    the argument that this will lead to marriages between people and animals or inanimate objects is also ridiculous. the key word here is consenting. the animals and objects cannot consent. did you think they could?

    the argument that there would be incestuous relationships...there already are. my instinct tells me that these are limited, for the most part, to extremely rural area and the pluralist communities out west. nothing that you'd probably ever encounter in your life.

    here is the kicker....the freedons we all have, especially freedom of religion, allow you to believe what you wish and for me to believe as i wish, however different. what it does not allow, is for you and your beliefs to dictate how i am supposed to believe and live my life. your g-d is not mine and vice versa. stay outta our lives and bedrooms. got it?

    March 12, 2013 at 7:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • TJ

      "M" says: "m

      what don't you people get about this?

      the argument that we already have equal rights, that any man can marry any woman, and that is available to gay people too, is discriminatory as is is not a person of their choice. one person consenting to marry another person.
      my marriage may happen to be gay, yours straight, why does it matter. the key words here are two, consenting and adults."

      1) It is NOT discriminitory in any manner. You want "special" rights.
      2) Pedos want to marry "people" of their choice too, just like you. And if the child agrees? Sorry chump.
      3) You don't have a duck. You have a goat. You can call your "goat" a duck all you like, but it's still a goat at the end of the day. Your marriage being the "goat" of course. You "think" you have a marriage, but what you have is a sham, and not a marriage. You have a goat. Stop calling it a duck. It is not, and never will be, no matter what any laws says.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:53 pm | Report abuse |
      • ggs

        Agreed.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:01 pm | Report abuse |
      • m

        tj....

        1. it is discriminatory in that i am not able to marry the consenting adult of my choice as you are,
        gender should not be a factor. as far as "special", not true, as the law would allow straight people
        to have a same sex marriage if they wished. it would not be limited to only the LGBT community.

        2. the child is not a consenting adult. what about my statement don't you understand? aparrently most of it.

        3. again, your opinion, not mine. we are allowed to have differing opinions about what a duck is. stop shoving
        your definition down my throat as if it is correct and superior and definitely stop acting as if you have a right to.
        you don't.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:13 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Jesus, TJ, you are obsessed with goats and ducks.

        March 12, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Report abuse |
  65. SeaStar

    I'm guessing that most of the people who've commented about their lack of sympathy for those involved in this situation are not parents? As a parent with two young children, the mere thought of not being able to see them makes me feel sorrowful. The emotional pain would be unbearable, and I would never wish it upon anyone, whether their children are biological or adopted. Love is love. I have difficulty understanding how anyone with an ounce of compassion, regardless of religious faith, thinks this kind of inequality and injustice is acceptable.

    If you question the long-term outcome of children raised by lesbian parents, a longitudinal study conducted over the course of more than 20 years demonstrated that children of lesbian parents exhibit fewer behavioral problems that their peers and perform better academically and in social situations. http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20100607/kids-of-lesbian-parents-are-well-adjusted.

    For those of you who don't like to keep up on science, it's been shown that brain structure, genes, and prenatal hormones are related to the pre-birth development of homosexuality, bisexuality, and asexuality. Also, homosexual behavior has been observed in over 200 animal species. I’m pretty sure they didn’t all consciously choose to be homosexual.

    March 12, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • BK

      Seastar, Thank you for voicing an logical and educated opinion!!!!

      March 12, 2013 at 7:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • Facts are Facts

      The reason that there is lack of sympathy is because she is not the biological mother. If anyone chooses to adopt a child and the biological mother, for whatever reason, does not want her child to be raised by the parent who adopted the child, it is not the same as you losing a child. There is a difference between biological parents and gay parents who decide to adopt. This is uncharted territory and we will need to create a lot of new laws to address these types of issues with gay parents.

      March 12, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Report abuse |
  66. Ken Margo

    My question to the bigots. Why as a species we are called HOMO sapiens?

    March 12, 2013 at 7:33 pm | Report abuse |
  67. chuck

    That SPERM Doner like it or not, is the DAD

    March 12, 2013 at 7:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      There's a huge difference between a sperm donor and a dad. Do you celebrate Happy Sperm Donor Day?

      March 12, 2013 at 7:28 pm | Report abuse |
      • HWB

        No, but most American do not celebrate "Happy Gay Day" either. What is your point?????

        March 12, 2013 at 7:41 pm | Report abuse |
        • spock500

          Uhh, his point is that there is a vast difference between being a Dad and being a sperm donor. Did you read and understand that?

          March 12, 2013 at 7:53 pm | Report abuse |
        • HWB

          To Spock500, uh we all got his point between dad and sperm donor. It is his non point about celebrating "Sperm Donor Day???? Guest that flew over your head? Whew.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          You missed the joke, idiot. The point, the joke, the everything. Bug off.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Come to think of it (pun intended), Hallmark should get right on that. I'm worried about what the cards would be like, though.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      The cards would be sticky

      March 12, 2013 at 7:34 pm | Report abuse |
  68. Concerned

    Let us dissect some of the talking points used by gay activists to justify their deviant behavior.

    1) "Everyone has the right to marry the person they love" If we allow that then we will have to allow incestual marriages because it fits the same criteria gays wants to use for marriage. We can require one party of the incestual marriage to be sterilized to rule out the chances of them producing children with genetic defects.

    2) "Homosexuality is natural because it exists in the animal kingdom"- cannibalism exists in the animal kingdom too. Should we legalize cannibalism? Dogs eat poop, should people eat poop too? I know gays engage in that behavior anyway but normal people don't do that.

    3) "Gay marriage does not harm your straight marriage so why would you care" – Prostitution does not affect my marriage too but society has banned prostitution for the most part because we have to live by a set of moral codes that dictate what we should or should not do. Gay marriage goes against that.

    Polygamous marriages have to legalized again because it fits the same criteria gays are using to justify gay marriage.

    March 12, 2013 at 7:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      !) There are probably incest marriages. They just get married in another state.
      2) Gays and Lesbians wants the SAME rights as straight people. This isn't about what animals do.
      3) prostitution is legal in parts of Nevada as well in other countries. That doesn't have any effect on your marriage or morals

      March 12, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Fail. You must be fun at parties, though.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • James

      1) Your counter argument ignores the "consenting adults" and "causes no harm" parts of the argument that are made. Harm to your ethical perspective does not count.

      2) We do lots of things that exist in the animal kingdom without resorting to cannibalism. Should we stop walking or swimming because animals walk swim and can eat their own poop?

      3) There are valid reasons for banning prostitution that don't apply to gay marriage. While we used to do it for moral reasons now we ban it mostly because it would take a lot of resources to determine if people willing enter it or not. Until we can regulate it effectively that is the most efficient way to go. I will admit they are pretty weak but maybe that means we shouldn't ban prostitution. To do the same in gay marriage we just have to apply the same standards we do to straight marriage (consenting adults) and use the same system already in place to determine if that criteria exists.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      1) If we allow that then we will have to allow incestual marriages because it fits the same criteria gays wants to use for marriage.”
      The bible supports incest and incest is legal in more states than gay marriage.

      2) "Homosexuality is natural because it exists in the animal kingdom”
      It’s also natural because they have shown there is a biological component to being gay, it has nothing to do with the poor logic you’re using.

      “Gay marriage goes against that.”
      No it doesn’t, gays are not selling themselves for money, that’s prostitution. Wow are you really this dumb in real life. How old are you?

      “Polygamous marriages have to legalized again because it fits the same criteria gays are using to justify gay marriage.”
      Again it’s found throughout the bible so Christians should have no issues with it. First you would have to make it legal and then fight it in the courts. Being gay is NOT illegal.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • Shane

      Actually you're wrong on a few accounts:

      Incestial marriage tends to negatively affect offspring, which would be a victim
      Cannibalism, this involved a victim
      Polygamy, personally I don't care as long as the laws equally protect all members of the marriage. This is extremely difficult to do fairly, so until that is done, there are victims.

      You see, in gay marriage there are no victims. Nobody is harmed. In all of your scenarios, someone is.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:29 pm | Report abuse |
      • HWB

        You are wrong. In gay marriage, all straight people are victims. We do not want it, we do not need it, we do not support it, we do not celebrate it, and frankly so does 90% of humanity in this world feel the same.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Report abuse |
        • ME

          Excuse me, but you don't speak for me. I am a strait, happily married woman and I would not deny anyone the right to marry the person they love. It's bad enough you are so hateful. Do not pretend to speak for strait people. It's embarrassing.

          March 12, 2013 at 9:44 pm | Report abuse |
        • HWB

          To Me, I don't pretend to speak for strait people, just straight people.

          March 13, 2013 at 9:37 am | Report abuse |
    • JD

      That may just be the most asinine statement I've ever read on cnn.com

      Comparing gay marriage to incest, cannibalism and prostitution just show the level of ignorance you have. We forget too often that we are not in a position to judge anyone ever. Jesus never spoke of gays in the bible, he loved everyone...equally. God would not have sent a son with hate in his heart to preach to mankind, you should keep that in mind as you go about your day.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ernie Franco

        JD please read your Bible when you make statments about it. Jesus did address homosexuailty in matthew 19:4-5. He defined marriage between a man and a woman. Later in matthew 19:9 He gives permission for divorce if your spouse has engaged in any sexual immorailty, which would include adultery, homosexuailty, or beastailty. The bible is all of God's word not just what Jesus said. Paul made it clear that homosexuailty is sin. Jesus did not address many things. We cannot assume that if He does not address issues he condones them.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          @Ernie............Is this the same bible the priest were reading when they molested those young boys? Is this the same bible the catholic church was reading when the church covered it up? Just want some clarity, that's all.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:42 pm | Report abuse |
    • Chris

      If the insufferably religious want to co-mingle their traditions with secular society, then they can expect secular society to interfere with those traditions. Alternately, if they want to disentangle marriage from our socio-political and economic infrastructure and confine it to the church, then they can have a say in who gets married and who doesn't. Until then, they can just quietly suck down their own bitter pill of not wanting separation of church and state now that it's being fed to them. Boo freaking hoo.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • Erik

      Concerned, I am terribly concerned that there are bigots in the world like you. You tried (albeit unsuccesfully from the start) to sound rational, but, like all rednecks, you couldn't help but let an insult slip, here, about how gays supposedly eat excrement. Knowing that gays are no less moral than anyone else (and have no greater incidence of "eating poop" than the straight world), I can only wish that your parents had experienced the good sense to forego marriage (or at least procreation).

      March 12, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • John Doe

      "Dogs eat poop, should people eat poop too? I know gays engage in that behavior anyway but normal people don't do that." Are you effin' serious? Where did you pull this little factoid that gays "engage in this behavior"? This has nothing to do with being gay. I'm sure there are an equal number of heterosexuals out there that also engage in this behavior. You are one such example.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • tim

      1)no comment
      2) my partner hasn't served me poop in a month or so. Could this mean he doesn't love me any more? (btw, scat is a fetish and not limited to homosexuals...suggest you do some research on this mate.)
      3) Well, as a medical professional I'm all for legalizing and regulating prostitution.

      Ummm...for polygamy as well. I've actually seen some pretty awesome polygamous relations.

      March 12, 2013 at 10:08 pm | Report abuse |
  69. RobinHOod

    If there is nothing wrong with h o mo sexual and le sb i an then why does my comment get removed if I use these words? This is so stupid!

    March 12, 2013 at 6:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • .

      It's word press filters

      March 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm | Report abuse |
  70. geeky in Waikiki

    One of those "benefits" of REAL marriage is the ability for the couple to produce offspring that shares BOTH their DNA. These deviants will NEVER be able to experience this God-given privilege.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      God given? you mean pe'nis given

      March 12, 2013 at 6:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • RobinHOod

        ACtually, it takes a PENis and a VAgina both. I am allowed to write P and V on here but I am not allowed to write les and hom on here?

        March 12, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Report abuse |
        • Dana

          No it doesn't. You need to go take a biology class. It's called a sperm and an egg.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • .

      Same troll different name.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • Hope

      "One of those "benefits" of REAL marriage is the ability for the couple to produce offspring that shares BOTH their DNA. These deviants will NEVER be able to experience this God-given privilege."

      Neither do many heterosexual couples.

      Is their infertility a sign from God they are also "deviants"?

      Is INFERTILITY a sign that a hetro couple is cursed?

      March 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • JF

        You are a brainless moron! There is no such thing as god!

        March 12, 2013 at 7:23 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          JF – that thing that just flew over your head? It was the point of that post.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      "that shares BOTH their DNA. "

      Guess you'll have to deny infertile couples their civil rights too based on your stupid logic.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm | Report abuse |
      • HWB

        What civil right????? Did you just pull something out of the thin air?????

        March 12, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Zeus

      So I guess there goes the marriages of elderly or infertile couples!

      March 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm | Report abuse |
    • heliocracy

      Neither could my mother. She couldn't have children, so she and her husband adopted three kids, including me. They weren't any less parents because we weren't their biological children, and I consider your ignorant comment to be an attack on my family. Take your stupid "philosophy" and shove it up your stupid @#$, okay?

      March 12, 2013 at 7:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      This is the same BS posted by 'Lacie' below. Changing screen names? Really?

      March 12, 2013 at 7:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cak

      Deviate? Really? Don't you have enough problems of your own? Stop taking others inventory and adding labels!

      March 12, 2013 at 7:40 pm | Report abuse |
  71. Bill

    No, Becky did not "absolve" her parental rights. She relinquished them. Words mean things.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Report abuse |
  72. andrealp43

    I have no sympathy for anyone involved.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      No one is asking for your sympathy. All they want is equality.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Report abuse |
      • Bladerunner

        Well they aint gonna get it.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Report abuse |
        • heliocracy

          Why is it your business? Crawl back into your hole and let others live their lives as they see fit. It's no skin off your nose.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        Didn't you kill your girl? Guess that hetero love was good for you!

        March 12, 2013 at 7:01 pm | Report abuse |
      • HWB

        What equality?????

        March 12, 2013 at 7:54 pm | Report abuse |
  73. Puckles

    Yet another story about some deviants. I am so tried of hearing about them. Ped o philes say they are "born" that way too.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      Yet you're to dumb to realize pedophiles hurt children.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Report abuse |
      • The

        Not according to the peds, they say they are not hurting anyone. HOM os and Les Bos hurt children as well by deliberately raising them in an unnatural environment. BTW I only commented on here twice, so I am not your "troll." And just because someone disagrees with an article does not make them a "troll."

        March 12, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          LOL Where did I call this person a troll? Funny how you got defensive about it. Wink...Wink...idiot.

          The research listed below shows that gays and lesbians don't hurt their children.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          "HOM os and Les Bos hurt children as well by deliberately raising them in an unnatural environment."

          Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:01 pm | Report abuse |
        • homer234

          Couldn't agree more ... And if the new Pope doesn't take swift corrective action against the pedophiles in the Catholic hierarchy then I will be forced to switch my Christian faith from being a baptized Catholic. My father and grandfather were both right when they said that this country was going to hell in a hand basket.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          You're an idiot AND a troll.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • HWB

        You are too dumb to know gays hurt children too????

        March 12, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Report abuse |
    • .

      This is the same troll using different names.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      What?? This article isn't about Catholics! Those deviants are discussed elsewhere on the site.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • John Doe

      Are you really this stupid? Pedophilia does not involve a relationship between two consenting adults. Pedophilia also involves a victim. No one is victimized in a consenting gay relationship between two ADULTS. If you don't like the gays, that's fine. But don't try to draw a parallel between two ideologies that are nothing alike. Please go back to your trailer park and rejoin the modern world when you've matured a bit.

      March 12, 2013 at 8:19 pm | Report abuse |
  74. Chris

    Another example of two people who knowingly enter into a situation with full awareness that their relationship is not legally defensible, can not be validated in a court of law, and then complain when that actually comes to pass. They are not married, they never were married, they never will be married. Period. Yes, the children are what's important but stop playing the victim card, and stop acting indignant about consequences you were fully aware of in advance.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Karen

      " They are not married, they never were married, they never will be married. Period. "

      Gay marriage is legal in 10 states.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • TJ

        Just because two gays and some states call it a duck, it's still a goat. Likewise for gay marriage.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          God, are you fantasizing about ducks and goats AGAIN? I thought it was a condition of your parole not to do that.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:08 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        @T J............The same logic was used to describe blacks. Look up the Dred Scott decision.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:56 pm | Report abuse |
        • TJ

          See, now there goes your asinine liberal argument about blacks and gays. BLACK is a RACE. GAY is a choice, a preference, etc.

          And, you're a RACE BAITER, handsdown. Sorry chump, you're wrong.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          TJ, gay is not a choice anymore than black is, you fundie tool. Get bent.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          Being Gay is not about choice. We don't get a questionnaire asking us to choose our preference. It's about what is comfortable to that person. There are animal species that are gay as well. It's nature.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:08 pm | Report abuse |
        • Erik

          "GAY is a choice"

          Being gay is not a choice. All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

          The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

          On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

          Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

          The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

          Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

          There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • ERIC! TAKE MY TEST!

          Seriously. Search for "Gay Litmus Test" in these comments.

          Its a choice, its a kink, its a deviance, its a mental issue.

          And I'll point something else out for you, I'm a science loving atheist.

          Shocking isnt it? Im not lying. The BIG propagandas are that they are born that way and that only religious people do not accept homosexuality. False.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:02 pm | Report abuse |
  75. My Gay-Supporting Litmus Test

    If you support that deviant behavior, then sit there at your computers, look up some deviant homes exua l videos and sit there and watch then from beginning to end.

    IF you look away, you dont agree with it, if you don't do it, you don't agree with it or support it, if you do sit there and watch it and agree with them that its natural, well, you're one of them and into kinky deviant stuff.

    Come back to me with the results.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      The result is you're an idiot!

      March 12, 2013 at 6:37 pm | Report abuse |
      • TJ

        His point is valid. Which means if he's an idiot, then you're what the idiot flushes down the toilet every morning after a boweI movement.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:56 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          TJ, seriously. Get a life.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:04 pm | Report abuse |
        • Hope

          His point is NOT valid ... unless you want to use people's threshold for PORN and a litmus test of acceptable sexual activity. Which is obviously inane. I shouldnt even have to say that ... but apparently, I do.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        @T J ..............His point is as valid as your education. NONE.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Report abuse |
        • TJ

          Child, you can explain that to the lawyers and doctors I teach (yes, TEACH). I'm sure they could enjoy laughing the night away.

          You're one ASSuming ASShole full of your own buIlshit. Have a nice day any way

          March 12, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Teach them what, TJ? How to avoid sexual harrassment lawsuits?

          March 12, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          @ T J..............Are you teaching people to be as bigoted as you? Because you're a teacher, your morals are not better than anyone else. What do you teach anyway? How to finger paint?

          March 12, 2013 at 7:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • lucianne

      Seriously? I am pretty sure I don't want to watch whatever you do in the bedroom, either. Some things are meant to remain private.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      How often have you been doing this? Pretty often, I'll bet. Wink wink, nudge nudge!

      March 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sam...

        What if I did? Lets just say if I did take the test, my results, I looked away in disgust closed that browser window in a split second.

        Whats wrong with that? Now I didn't look away or hold my hand up to block the imagery, clicked on a homosexual video, wouldn't that really say something?

        Wink wink... nudge nudge.

        I still haven't seen your test results! Get on it now!

        March 12, 2013 at 7:46 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      I'm sure gays and lesbians would feel the same way about watching a straight video.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      "If you support that deviant behavior, then sit there at your computers, look up some deviant homes exua l videos and sit there and watch then from beginning to end."

      Your watching porn idiot, not a loving respectful relationship of a gay couple.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sam...

        No need to insult. I guess I touched on a nerve that it made you angry and hateful. How intolorant.

        Anyway, my response to "Your watching porn idiot, not a loving respectful relationship of a gay couple."

        Don't "loving respectful relationships of a gays" also involve gay SEX?

        I don't get? Are you trying to distance a "loving relationship" as clean or away from "gay sex" in a sex video, ie, gay porn?

        Is it dirty? Hmmm, take my test, really. You're confused, maybe it will clarify something things for you.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • My Gay-Supporting Litmus Test

      I knew it! I'd get the ad-homimen attacks and other straights making excuses... TAKE MY TEST!

      March 12, 2013 at 6:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • Hope

        You are labeling truth as an excuse ... which IS an excuse not to face the truth.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bruce B.

      This doesn't even make any sense. There are plenty of male-female sex acts that I would not like to perform, but I don't think they should be illegal, nor do I consider them "deviant". Just because something doesn't arouse me doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else (provided all sentient beings involved are consenting adult humans).

      March 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • What about...

        Fisting. Or... anal... isn't it really deviating from what is natural? C'mon, really. THINK about it. Critically.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:58 pm | Report abuse |
        • Treez

          Look around you dude. Do you think any of this is 'natural'?

          March 12, 2013 at 8:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • Karen

      @My Gay-Supporting Litmus Test

      Then watch a porn video of a man doing it to a woman because husbands have the same kind of sex and let us know if you get the same feelings. If not you are probably gay.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • Hope

      Gay Americans would have a hard time watching hetero sex, also.

      Your litmus test is neither.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • Jacob

      Dude, I'm a straight male and I only watch lesbian porn. I don't like watching straight porn because I'm so straight that I don't want to watch another dude getting off. I'd rather watch two chicks go at it.

      Also, as a human being, I believe gay couples should be allowed to get married.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Report abuse |
      • Sorry man...

        Dude... you're into homosexuality. But thats your business. If you like watching to lesbians, well, thats gay porn, sorry to break the news to ya'.

        Straight men watch straight porn because they can relate and vicariously live through the male actor doing the natural and biologically correct act.

        Rethink it man. Take my test.... TAKE IT!

        March 12, 2013 at 7:01 pm | Report abuse |
        • Hope

          He did take your test.

          Your TEST FAILED.

          But it is not a possibility in the world that you would understand that.

          You are trained to oppose homosexual people regardless of fact, morality, truth, reason, logic or science.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:08 pm | Report abuse |
        • Hope

          Watching lesbians exclusively means this man is gay?

          Can you see any problem with that premise???

          Try .. give it a shot .. WHAT IS the problem with that premise...

          I bet you could figure it out ..... hmmmm likes women ... hmmm., likes to watch WOMEN ... does not like to see naked MEN.... yes ... that = a GAY MAN ?? !!!

          HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

          NOW THAT

          is comedy!!

          March 12, 2013 at 7:11 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          @Sorry man.................You seem like a real EXPERT on this. Please elaborate!

          March 12, 2013 at 7:29 pm | Report abuse |
        • You's gay... and thats.. okay... for you...

          Yes. If you enjoy ANY kind of homosexual porn, you are either gay yourself or have a solid interest in homosexuality.

          I KNOW thats difficult to digest and accept, but it is what it is.

          Just be true to yourself.

          AND TAKE MY TEST!

          March 12, 2013 at 7:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • Hopeless...

          Hope – its YOU, this test is co-ed baed. Its for both heterosexual genders.

          Do YOU look away when you see two women at it? C'mon now... or do you watch it through? What are your findings? Thanks!

          March 12, 2013 at 7:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • Treez

        I love gay porn!

        March 12, 2013 at 8:24 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          Is that gay gay or lesbian gay?

          March 12, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Your 'test' is dumb, proves nothing, and makes no sense to anyone but you.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Report abuse |
      • Clear as day...

        I can't make it anymore than 20/20 for you, again, you attack ad hominem, no surprise.

        Take it. Take the test, open up another tab – go find a gay website, put on a video of what YOU SUPPORT and see if you can sit through it.

        If you can't, you do not agree with sexual deviance, if you watch it through, you may, may have homo sexual interests.

        And really, I don't care if you're kinky or deviant. But, its a test to see what you really are supporting, if it disgust you still, well... I can't speak for you but it is what it is.

        TAKE THE TEST!

        March 12, 2013 at 6:56 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Just stop already. And don't bother changing screen names, it's obvious who the crazy posts belong to. We get it, you're an attention whore that is begging people to watch gay p0rn. Go away, you're boring.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:03 pm | Report abuse |
        • You's gay... and thats.. okay... for you...

          Sam. I use the name change as a title to my piece. Why bother with names, doesn't matter, just using comment-tech differently.

          But let me ask you, did you take my test?

          What were the results.

          The reason you try to shoo me away is because its touched a nerve, made most of you fellow misguided straight and natural people rethink your support.

          Its been thought provoking and a bit of a threat.

          Don't tell me when you, as an sexually healhty adult, go to a porn site and you browsing your hetero, natural porn that you see a gay video preview and look away... c'mon. Or, if you click on it, since you support that type of behavior, doesn't that possibly say something about were you stand?

          Lets be real now.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • Rs1201

      You forgot your meds again!

      March 12, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • sadlyperturbed

      It seems you already took your test. And I am guessing you enjoyed what you saw. So much so that you feel the need to deny who you are to yourself and everyone around you.

      March 12, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Report abuse |
      • Okay...

        Let's say I took the test and I "enyoyed" what I saw, you seem to have a problem with it, you're obviously trying to attack my straighthoodness (yes,I made up that word).

        Its as if you really don't agree with it as you're trying to use my test against me. As if its "wrong" and you want

        I've bumped into things that I look away, close the page immediately, it disgusts me, I know where I stand very well.

        Anyway, the test is really about YOU. Take the test. Share your results.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:34 pm | Report abuse |
  76. Worse bigotry in homos ex uals

    Classism, elitism, disgust with the poor, intolerance, bigotry and racism, stereotype pushing, cronyism, and worst of all hypocrisies – heterophobia.

    Thats right, an intense dislike and I'm putting that lightly, for straight, natural people.

    But no one talks about that do they. If this couple was so into children they would say something about all the g ay making that occurs as part of their culture, all the child abuse, but you never hear them go against that. Hm.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Report abuse |
    • JeffreyRO5

      What on earth are you talking about?

      March 12, 2013 at 6:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Da fuq??

      March 12, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      Back your claims up. It's easy to make broad statements to your own personal leaning. It's cheap.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • My Gay-Supporting Litmus Test

      Right, you ether don't know about it, naive as you are, or you front to make me look like I'm crazy-talking.

      But its true, oh so very true. I've worked amongst them and back in my naive days had a few friends who were of the kinkier side and boy what I saw and heard.

      Now they probably hide it better as they are seeking social acceptance at a broader cultural level with teary eyed stories like this one.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Report abuse |
      • sadlyperturbed

        You keep right on posting. You are working toward the day when you feel comfortable enough with your reality to admit who you are. I know it takes time. But you will get there.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Report abuse |
        • What if I was?

          Is there something wrong with it? Seems like you really don't agree with it as you use gay as a bad thing against others. Hmmmm.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • The

      LOL!!! Loved the first sentence! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      March 12, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Are you going to post anything that isn't completely batshit insane?

      March 12, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Report abuse |
    • Hope

      It's horrifying to read how brainwashed you are.

      The description you give of how gay people view the strait world:

      "Classism, elitism, disgust with the poor, intolerance, bigotry and racism, stereotype pushing, cronyism, and worst of all hypocrisies"

      .... IS an accurate description of how conservative Christians are trained to see the "world" – through a lens of intolerance and hate.

      Class warfare, is the constant conservative Christian cry – Obama is an Elitist, the POOR are takers, all gays are evil, all liberals are Godless, the rich have the right to own our governance (C.U.) and Jesus teaches "Arm up well that ye may shoot thy enemy" .... yes ... hypocrisy!

      March 12, 2013 at 6:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • What if I was?

        Hope. Im an atheist. Who's aso worked and had friends who are gay. Trust me, I'm not just talking crazy.

        The thing is that what I've pointed out has really touched a nerve. What can you do. It is what it is. As hard as it is to accept.

        March 12, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Report abuse |
  77. surrndbyGeniuses

    I was married in a heterosexual marriage that not only made me unhappy but my children also. For me, Love is where you find it, and I have been in a committed gay relationship for 5 years now. We own our home, work professional jobs, have uncles, cousins, grandma's and grandpa's,and EX's at Christmas. We raise my 3 sons but are not allowed to marry in our state. We cook,, we camp, we do sports, garden, we have very good female/male balance as individuals. The boys, their friends, their friends parents, teachers, neighbors are all supportive of our family. As far as stigmatizing my sons socially. My sons friends practically live at our house because some of their straight parents happen to not be such good parents. Drugs, cheating, separating, physical and emotional abuse going in some of their straight household's. We have rules in our home, they know what to expect, and we know this based on the respect the kids show us. Bad parenting, embarrasing kids, hurting kids doesnt just happen in gay homes. on the contrary... in addition, my son's friends have told us it's no big deal. Kids today are very well educated on the Holocaust, the Civil Rights Movement, The Suffruget Movement, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln.... they are not the bigot, predjudice haters that alot of their parents are so alot of you haters here do not speak for their generation.
    there is hope.

    March 12, 2013 at 6:13 pm | Report abuse |
    • Keepalowprofile

      Bravo, I hope that some day you and your partner can enjoy marriage and the benefits that go long with it.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • Lacie

        One of those "benefits" of REAL marriage is the ability for the couple to produce offspring that shares BOTH their DNA. These deviants will NEVER be able to experience this God-given privilege.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Lacie, please tell me nothing is running around with your DNA. I'd hate to think the gene pool was so polluted.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      Good luck to you both!

      March 12, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • Brandon

      Gross. Seek help, you have a mental illness.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • Please...

      There is as much of that bigotry in your homo sexua l culture as those you point fingers at, please.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Report abuse |
    • TJ

      That's not love of the person. That's the love of their genitaIia. That's what being gay is about – just genitiaIs. If it were about love, then you know a person of the opposite sex can love you just as much and deeply as a person of the same sex.

      It ain't about love. Just the genitaIs. Nothing more

      March 12, 2013 at 7:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        No, TJ, that's YOUR obsession. Get help.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Report abuse |
      • Really?

        "That's what being gay is about – just genitiaIs. "

        No, it's not. Like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

        Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

        A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

        Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        Doesn't your partner have genitals?

        March 12, 2013 at 8:48 pm | Report abuse |
  78. Nutella

    I am perfectly comfortable with the State delimiting lines of legal marriage to man and woman. Otherwise why stop at legalizing gay marriage? Should we also make concessions for polygamy (all consenting adults, with preference to more partners than less), for siblings marrying, for all kinds of "love" and "sexual preference"??? I truly don't understand why gay people really think that a civil union is not enough.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:57 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Polygamy and incest were fine in the bible...

      Stop pretending that letting those crazy gay people marry each other will allow some kind of slippery slope. People said the same idiot things when interracial marriage was finally legalized.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:01 pm | Report abuse |
      • Robaire

        LMAO!!! You're right Sam.
        And when we look back at interracial marriages, we think "what was the point?'.

        All this insanity have to stop. I still don't get why gay "marriages" is such a threat to straight "marriages.

        Hopefully, the next generation will view gay marriages as "what was the point"? Somehow this generation is just plain imbeciles when it come to two people loving one another enough to make a permanent commitment and want it validation legally as such.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:26 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          I can see later generations looking back and wondering what on earth was wrong with us and why we were carrying on about something like this – the same way we look back at the uproar over interracial marriage. Well, most of us – some people are still riled up about how 'wrong' it is. We just try to avoid them.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:34 pm | Report abuse |
      • wut?

        that was the worst possible analogy you could've used.

        "Stop pretending that letting those crazy gay people marry each other will allow some kind of slippery slope. People said the same idiot things when interracial marriage was finally legalized."

        and once interracial marriage was legalized the discussion turned to gay marriage.... and then it will be animal and incestual marriage. Do you see why that was poorly worded now?

        March 12, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Interracial marriage has not automtically led to gay marriage. That's in your head. And in no way does it lead to bestiality or polygamy. Go away.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:41 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          ps – keep your kinky fantasies to yourself.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Report abuse |
        • Keepalowprofile

          Wrong.

          People will never be able to marry and animal. Animals can't speak there fore they can't say yes or no.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • anon

        But it Is a slippery slope. Whether or not gay marriage should be legalized isn't the point. Right or wrong, just like interracial marriage, it will lead to yet ANOTHER campaign for the right to do something else. The only logical next step in the civil rights debate is polygamy, then pedophilia, then bestiality, and way down the line, it will be necrophilia. What sounds gross and disgusting today will be lauded and supported tomorrow. And so what if it is? Who are we to say that ANY of the above mentioned is wrong? Seriously, who are we to judge?

        March 12, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Report abuse |
        • in all seriousness

          IN all seriousness, and without any malice intended, can someone please tell me what they think the NEXT movement will be after the gay marriage debate has come and gone and it is nothing more then a chapter in our history books? What will be next? Anyone care to make a guess?

          March 12, 2013 at 6:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • Brandon

        ...And they were right, weren't they? Interracial marriage led to gay marriage. Which proves that it can lead elsewhere too. Like incest.
        ...Or worse.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • homer234

        Homosexuality was outlawed in the Old Testament, (look it up) and was never condoned in the New Testament. Those who trivialize homosexuality in this life will have to answer for it in the next... Be forewarned...only the Satan will be there to say, "I told ya so" ... but that will be too late.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Shellfish was banned in the OT, too, so what?

          You can keep your boogeyman and your imaginary afterlife.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      Separate but equal is inherently unequal. As for gay marriage leading to polygamy, etc., this did not happen when interracial marriage was legalized, and it will not happen when gay marriage is legalized.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • Morgan

        technically....the slippery slope did happen....I mean first there was interracial marriage...now same sex marriage is on the table....I'm not saying that I think either of these things are bad, I'm just pointing out that there might be a slippery slope, but that's progress.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          One didn't lead to the other.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:39 pm | Report abuse |
        • Brandon

          Exactly. Some of the precedence from the interracial marriage scotus case was used in the gay marriage argument by gay rights groups.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Report abuse |
        • Ken Margo

          Considering less straight people are getting married, you should be thrilled somebody still wants to get married. My feelings are simple. Gay and lesbians couples have every right to be miserable in their marriages as straight couples.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Report abuse |
        • to Sam

          Of course one led to the other. One group stepped out and fought for their civil rights, and just about 3 decades later, another group, inspired by this, become emboldened enough to try their hand at getting civil rights. About 3 or 4 decades before the black civil rights, the WOMEN first stood up and fought for theirs.

          I'm just curious on what group is next.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Report abuse |
        • to Sam

          Of course one led to the other. One group stepped out and fought for their civil rights, and just about 3 decades later, another group, inspired by this, become emboldened enough to try their hand at getting civil rights. About 3 or 4 decades before the black civil rights, the WOMEN first stood up and fought for theirs.

          I'm just curious on what group is next. I'm betting money that it will be the group that likes to screw horses.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:52 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Sigh. Really? Then you can just as well say that the fight for women's right to vote led to gay marriage. Anyone ever looking for rights leads to other people looking for rights. That doesn't make it a slippery slope.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • Cynthia

      Your train of reason was the same used by people opposed to legalizing inter-racial marriage...where would it lead to???? It had no credibility then, either.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • Chris

      Since I'm still here, I might as well respond. The "slippery slope" argument is very weak. It allows you to avoid the substance of why same-sex marriage should or should not be a part of society, and instead argue the easier positions, such as that incest should not be allowable. As I stated below, disallowing same-sex marriage is a very concrete example of the state not allowing one person to do something for no reason other than his or her gender (LGBT people are certainly allowed to marry, just not the people that they'd be attracted to, and a straight man may not marry another straight man not because of his orientation, but because of his gender). From there, it should be the government's burden to demonstrate why it should be permitted to limit the equality of its citizenry under the law. Arguing against incest or bestiality does not answer that question; it simply allows you to feel smug in your conviction.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sam

      You're kind of daft. So a civil union is fine but marriage is not because of this looming slippery slope you anti-marriage people always talk about. I have yet to see it, though. I don't see people with multiple partners asking for civil unions. I don't see people who REALLY like animals asking for civil unions. Becasuse if it would happen to marriage, it would surely have happened to civil unions. I'm just using your "logic."

      March 12, 2013 at 6:09 pm | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      Ah, the slippery slope. Classic fear-mongering.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:19 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eli

      Heterosexual marriage hasn't led to brothers and sisters getting married; interracial marriage hasn't led to interspecies marriage. Why should such an imaginary and unreasonable slippery slope be an obstacle to gay marriage?

      March 12, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • Choconet

      WILL YOU GAY SUPPORTERS STOP USING BLACK PEOPLE AND OUR STRUGGLES FOR EQUALITY AS YOUR SPRING BOARD FOR YOUR OWN EQUALITY!!!! We don't appreciate it and do not support it!!! Each disadvantaged group has its own struggles and you will have to suffer and struggle for what you believe is yours ON YOUR OWN! YOUR BATTLE IS UNQUIELY YOUR OWN! Contrary to what you think being gay is not the new black! They don’t go hand-in-hand and they certainly are not and will never be the same inequality struggle!!! Black people can’t change their skin color, but no one knows a person is gay until that person opens their mouth and say so! THIS IS YOUR UNIQUE BATTLE AND IT WILL NOT BE WON ON THE BACKS OF BLACK EQUALITY, ITS GOINING TO HAVE TO BE WON ON GAY EQUALITY.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:28 pm | Report abuse |
      • essmeier

        Who put you in charge of speaking for all people of color?

        March 12, 2013 at 6:31 pm | Report abuse |
      • Ken Margo

        @choconet................All battles are everyone's battle. Racism and bigotry for one group is no different than racism and bigotry for another. Despite a black prez blacks still struggle for equality, so gay struggle is our struggle too.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:35 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Excuse me, you don't speak for everyone of color. There's no piggybacking going on – the struggle is a similar example in the history of this country, so parallels are naturally being drawn.

        Now stop acting like a fool and get over yourself, you're embarrassing.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Report abuse |
      • nope!

        On the backs of black equality? You think pretty highly of yourself I guess

        Get real

        March 12, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Report abuse |
      • Kevin

        Now that you've appointed yourself as the spokesperson for the black community you might want to tell the NAACP that they have it wrong. Also Coretta Scott King, while speaking to Lambda Legal, an organization of lawyers supporting lgbt rights, stated they she felt Dr. King would have been a supporter of the cause. "I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King's dream to make room at the table of brother and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," said Scott King. Bigotry is bigotry and my friend you're now a bigot!

        March 12, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Report abuse |
      • ?????

        Yes, because black folks won the battle for equality on their own. No person of any other race ever stood up, fought or died for your cause. Moron.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Report abuse |
      • Steve

        And yet the arguments used against same-sex marriage are exactly the same ones used against interracial marriage

        March 13, 2013 at 5:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • essmeier

      I trust you'd be OK with a civil union yourself, right?

      March 12, 2013 at 6:30 pm | Report abuse |
    • Ken Margo

      Nut is a more appropriate name for you. Or maybe we should call you BIGOT instead.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:32 pm | Report abuse |
    • Allie

      All the polygamists are straight people. So by your reasoning, if we keep marriage for only heterosexuals, then soon we will have to allow polygamists to marry. We should solidify the definition of marriage to be between only two consenting adults, the way it was before the so-called fundamentalists tried to redefine marriage.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • tim

      Because marriage is not only a moral thing, it is a legal thing. In fact, outside of religion, that is all it is, a legal thing. Granting me a civil union does not grant me all the intrinsic rights of marriage as the law speaks of 'married, spouses, husband, wives, etc'

      March 12, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Report abuse |
  79. Chris

    Members of a society are either equal, or they are not.

    Imagine three people in a room. There are two women and one man. Either one of the women may marry the man, and the man may marry both of the women. However, neither of the women may the other woman. This is solely a product of their gender (obviously, the situation would be the same if it were reversed and there were two men and one woman). The 14th amendment ensures the right to equal protection of the law for all classes of individuals. When that woman is not allowed to marry another woman, the law is saying that the woman may not do something not necessarily because of the woman's sexual orientation, but because of her gender. Put simply, she may not marry that woman because she is a woman. A law that discriminates against individuals based on their gender, then, better have a darn good reason for the discrimination. Whatever your personal beliefs, I don't feel comfortable with the government drawing lines such as this based on gender, particularly when the consequences can be so draconian. I prefer actual equality.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Report abuse |
    • Erik

      "because of the woman's sexual orientation"

      All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

      The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

      On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

      Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

      The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

      Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

      There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • Chris

        Sorry, Erik, but you grabbed a quote from what I said and made it sound as if I was suggesting that homosexuality is a mutable characteristic. I said nothing to that effect. Instead, I was just demonstrating that marriage equality can be boiled down to a more simple paradigm- that is, that our current legal structure discriminates based on gender. I'm not quite sure, considering the argument I put forth, what purpose knocking down this straw man you created serves.

        March 12, 2013 at 5:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • Squeezebox

        So you argue that because pedophilia is a pheontype that it should be indulged? I say abstinence is the answer! Living without sex has not been proven to kill anyone and over a million people have tried it over the centuries. It prevents disease, unwanted pregnancy, physical injury, psychological injury, and a criminal record. And it costs nothing. Gay divorce is just as financially ruinous as straight divorce.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:21 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          "So you argue that because pedophilia is a pheontype that it should be indulged?"

          You really aren't this stupid in real life are you? You can't comprehend that a pedophile hurts children. Lame post dude.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • beth

      I don't think marriage should be defined by government at all. There should be some sort of domestic partnership laws that any 2 or more adults can enter to pool ownership of their assets, share insurance benefits & for hospital visitation, etc., but as far as defining marriage, I don't see why the government cares at all. That should be something for an individual or their religion to define.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • Really?

        "I don't see why the government cares at all. That should be something for an individual or their religion to define."

        There are over a thousand rights that come with marriage, which is why it's a civil rights.

        Here's a partial list:

        Tax Benefits
        -–Filing joint income tax returns with the I R S and state taxing authorities.
        -–Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
        Estate Planning Benefits
        -–Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
        -–Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
        -–Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
        -–Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse – that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.
        Government Benefits
        -–Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
        -–Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
        -–Receiving public assistance benefits.
        -–Employment Benefits
        -–Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
        -–Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
        -–Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
        -–Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.
        Medical Benefits
        -–Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
        -–Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
        Death Benefits
        -–Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
        -–Making burial or other final arrangements.
        Family Benefits
        -–Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
        -–Applying for joint foster care rights.
        -–Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
        -–Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
        Housing Benefits
        -–Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
        -–Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
        Consumer Benefits
        -–Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
        -–Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
        -–Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
        -–Other Legal Benefits and Protections
        -–Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
        -–Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
        -–Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
        -–Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
        -–Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
        -–Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

        March 12, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse |
        • TJ

          Gays (heterophobes) share all the exact same rights as straight people have. No difference.

          A hetero man cannot marry another hetero man. A gay person can choose to marry someone of the opposite gender.

          What gays want are special rights because they choose a certain lifestyle. To think otherwise is to think like an imbecile. But then, that's now many gays and their supporters think. For them, it's all about the "me, me, me" of it all.

          If gays are "born" that way, then so are pedos, and others who practice deviant sexuaI behaviors. And if gays are to be with any sense of "normalcy", then so should other sexuaI deviants. And if gays are to be granted special rights, then so should ALL sexuaI deviants. After all, they're "born" that way.

          You gays and your supporters can attempt to justify, rationalize, and legitimize gay sexuaI behavior, but then what else could you do? I mean, even the nazis did the same, and the Khmer Rouge, NAMBLA, and al Qeida. Talk to any of them and you'll find they do just as you do to the rest of the world; justify, rationalize, and legitimize.

          As they go, so go gays.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Report abuse |
      • hubh

        some sort of domestic partnership laws that any 2 or more adults can enter to pool ownership of their assets, share insurance benefits & for hospital visitation, etc.,

        we call that sort of domestic partnership "marriage"

        March 12, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Report abuse |
  80. Andrea

    So? How is this news worthy? This happens thousands of times every single day. People get together, adopt kids and then they break up. The kids are the ones paying the price for irresponsible adults. It doesn't matter whether those adults are gay or not – being gay isn't anything special.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      This is newsworthy because a person's parental rights were terminated because of their sexual orientation, and that is wrong.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:06 pm | Report abuse |
    • trizzy78

      Yes, kids often get the raw end of the deal, but that's not what's being argued here and it leads away from what's really being pointed out in the article. This (former) couple went to great lengths to try to preserve the rights of both individuals as parents to the children. The sole reason for this article is because these women are gay, they cannot marry, and as a direct result of that, the state of Michigan throws all of the circumstances out and simply says the birth mother gets the kids, no negotiation.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:15 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eli

      I look forward to the day that being gay "isn't anything special" in the sense that people don't hold it against them. This article isn't newsworthy b/c yet another couple broke up, though. It's newsworthy b/c their being gay is the legal stumbling block at the crux of it. If society isn't treating gay people equally under the law, we're not yet at a time where we can settle on the idea that being gay "isn't anything special."

      March 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Report abuse |
  81. Jeremiah

    It is disgusting to read the various comments posted by gays trying to justify their deviant behavior. Ah well, at least I do not have to worry about them when I am in heaven.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:27 pm | Report abuse |
    • jajajaja

      The quicker you get there the better.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:34 pm | Report abuse |
    • Erica

      That's what you think. God's gay, which is why he had to use Mary as a surrogate. Have fun in heaven.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • Troglodytes Entertaining All

      Mindless, hateful people don't go to heaven.. Read your bible.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      " trying to justify their deviant behavior"

      Were are quoting the experts on the subject. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      March 12, 2013 at 5:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • James

      "Ah well, at least I do not have to worry about them when I am in heaven."

      I doubt it. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Report abuse |
    • The devil

      You mean, when you come to see me? Quit being a judgemental jerk and maybe then Jesus will love you.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Report abuse |
    • the middle man

      A "real Christian" would not be here and would only answer back with "GOD's words".

      Your leader told you to pay Caesar his dues but to stay away from the world and their ineffective man-made governments, so..........Why are you here? It is not God or Nature. it must only be hatred.

      HEY!

      Please stand up for your denomination and stop being a generic "Christian" for instance.

      If you are Catholic tell me what the name of the church you belong to is, where it is located, and why your denomination is the only true religion and why for instance are all Methodists wrong.

      Please help every one here to see the light....

      March 12, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • Kabimima

      Judge not, lest ye be judged. -The Gospel according to St. Matthew

      Not just pretty words. Words to live by.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:53 pm | Report abuse |
    • pmdww2

      Bigotry is the truly deviant behavior.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:07 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sam

      Maybe the gays need make up some kind of mystical father figure in the big sky to justify their behavior. I mean, you have one, so why not? People will believe anything.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • sam

        Their god will be a fabulous god.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Report abuse |
    • ringadingDONG

      Even if Heaven existed, bigots are not allowed in.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:29 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bruce B.

      Comments like yours make me sad. I am a Christian, and it hurts my heart that fellow believers judge people so harshly for just being who they are.

      Love is love, and MY God loves everyone, no matter their sexual orientation.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:52 pm | Report abuse |
  82. DeeDee

    This is so sad. What really breaks my heart is that the biological mother would keep her children from the only other parent they have known. She does not realize that she is hurting her children and the plight of other same-sex couples. Sadly, I've known one same-sex couple that broke up and the non-biological parent deprived of having contact with her child that she helped raise for 5 years. Other couples have been able to work out visitation and child-support on their own. Now, I've noticed that some people on this link are noting that the children of same-sex couples would be 'messed up' in one way or another. I either have known or know at the very least 11 same-sex couples. Their children are all well adjusted, smart, loving and awesome kids. Believe me, hetro parents don't have such a great record of raising perfect kids, either.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • beth

      From the information in this article I see nothing to lable this judge an activist. He seems to be unholding the law as it exists without making his own moral judgement on whether or not the law is morally right. It sounds like this couple went way out of thier way to get around the existing laws to form a union and establish custody of the children. If the biological parent truly surrendered custody of her children, she would not have been able to adopt them herself. Obviously the biological mother went back on her commitment to her partner, but it doesn't sound like there was anything legal about the arrangement in the first place. Couples splitting up is hard on children no matter how it happens & there are plenty of custody battles between heterosexual couples. Whether or not the existing laws in Michigan are morally right or wrong is another issue, but the couple clearly had very little legal ground for their union and custody and the judge ruled correctly.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:39 pm | Report abuse |
      • beth

        Sorry, I meant to reply to the post below yours.

        March 12, 2013 at 5:43 pm | Report abuse |
  83. anchorite

    This judge who ruled the adoption invalid is the activist. Federal law, the CONSTITUTION of the United States of America says that Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. Banning homosexual marriages and adoptions is clearly the bigotry of Christians, hence their constant reference to "in God's eyes, marriage is between a man and a woman." Well, sorry, God did not write the law, and He doesn't get to. If you want to push your bigoted religious views on someone, do it somewhere besides America, which belongs to the Muslims, atheists, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and people of every other believe every bit as much as it belongs to Christians.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • Andrea

      Yes, and the Muslims behead their gay folk.....

      March 12, 2013 at 5:30 pm | Report abuse |
      • cygnusrising001

        Well, hey, we're going to discriminate against your but at least we're not cutting your head off. Look on the bright side!

        March 12, 2013 at 5:37 pm | Report abuse |
    • beth

      From the information in this article I see nothing to lable this judge an activist. He seems to be unholding the law as it exists without making his own moral judgement on whether or not the law is morally right. It sounds like this couple went way out of thier way to get around the existing laws to form a union and establish custody of the children. If the biological parent truly surrendered custody of her children, she would not have been able to adopt them herself. Obviously the biological mother went back on her commitment to her partner, but it doesn't sound like there was anything legal about the arrangement in the first place. Couples splitting up is hard on children no matter how it happens & there are plenty of custody battles between heterosexual couples. Whether or not the existing laws in Michigan are morally right or wrong is another issue, but the couple clearly had very little legal ground for their union and custody and the judge ruled correctly.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:42 pm | Report abuse |
      • vic

        Beth, If you are right then it shows how wrong anti-marriage advocates are when they say civil unions are just as good as marriages. These two women were trying to use the law to establish rights they would have had in a marriage but could not do so.

        March 12, 2013 at 7:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • DDP

      No civilization in History has set a standard where a man can marry a man and a Woman a woman. Our laws come from the Greeks and the Romans. their societies had a understanding about homosexual relationships, the Spartans encouraged them amoung their wariors, but even they did not allow marrages between the same gender. because the reason for marrage is to determine paternity.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse |
      • demaris

        Not true.

        There have been all variations of marriage. Tibetan marriage can involve a woman and two brothers. India has hijra (trans/intergender). There are African societies where a woman with no brothers can inherit her father's property and marry wives.

        Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:10 pm | Report abuse |
      • Zaphod

        Women were property. Men couldn't marry a man because they weren't property, and women couldn't marry women because they couldn't own property.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Report abuse |
      • huhb

        Like it or not, the last 12 years are part of history, so you are patently wrong.

        And if a childless couple gets married, whose paternity are they determining?

        March 12, 2013 at 9:04 pm | Report abuse |
      • tim

        DDP, might I suggest "The History Channel" so that you will not show your total lack of knowledge on this subject. Many of the Greek city states promoted gay relationship in their military, Sparta especially. The Catholic Church only banned gay marriages in the Middle Ages, sometime around the time they banned marriage for their Priests.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:31 pm | Report abuse |
  84. the middle man

    HEY TRUE BELIEVERS!

    Please stand up for denomination and stop being a generic "Christian" for instance.

    If you are Catholic tell me what the name of the church you belong to is, where it is located, and why your denomination is the only true religion and why for instance are all Methodists wrong.

    Please help every one here to see the light....

    March 12, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      Dude, you're not going to get more of a response than you already have.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • the middle man

        Why isn't any one here preaching the word of GOD?

        I think it is because you are all embarrassed of what you believe, and are afraid of bring reproach upon your congregation.

        IF YOU DON'T LIVE IT YOUR SELF, WHY MUST OTHERS LIVE IT?

        March 12, 2013 at 5:56 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          The only god fearing people you'll see here today are the ones who enjoy ranting about how gays are unnatural. Don't encourage them.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • Squeezebox

      St Phillip the Apostle parish, Columbus, Ohio. Let's start with the last supper when Jesus said "this is my body which will be given up for you. This is the cup of my blood, the cup of the new and everlasting covenant". Catholics believe this literally. Jesus is not a liar. You can look at the old testament, but you can also look at the letters of St Paul to various groups condemning immorality and the sins of the flesh. While not mentioning homosexuality specifically he does say that your body is a temple and not to sin against it. He also says that if you have a spouse, your attention is going to be on pleasing your spouse whereas if you are celibate your attention is more focused on pleasing God. This is why we don't allow our priests, monks, and nuns to marry.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Report abuse |
      • Eli

        What's your take on Mark 12, where Jesus tells His followers to leave Caesar's business to Caesar? Unless you're proposing that every marriage ever performed be sanctioned by your personal church, how can you say that your church's teachings should have any bearing on someone else's life?

        March 12, 2013 at 6:40 pm | Report abuse |
      • tim

        And just how well is that working out for the Catholic Church....hrm......?

        March 12, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Report abuse |
  85. Terry

    I laugh at this article..." they decided to start a family. Gay marriage is illegal in Michigan, but the couple exchanged rings and used a sperm donor so that Becky could get pregnant."

    Define marriage all you want but when it comes down to it...it still takes a man and woman to have kids. Can't change the laws of nature to fit your definitions.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Report abuse |
    • Spencer

      Luckily for us all that marriage doesn't have anything to do with procreation then.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:24 pm | Report abuse |
    • the middle man

      You associate marriage and having kids as one thing. Many people do not have kids and are married. Many have kids and are not married. Some don't have kids and adopt, but can only usually do this if the law acknowledges their COMMITMENT to one another.

      I WOULD SAY THAT THE DEBATE HERE IS THE FACT of whether or not, that FOUR YEARS IS LONG ENOUGH TO VALIDATE A COMMITMENT THAT WOULD SUGGEST ADOPTION WAS A GOOD CHOICE. (And that debate would be warranted for this instance as well as for heterosexual couples.)

      IT IS A BAD IDEA THAT IMMATURE CHILDREN HAVE CHILDREN, BUT WE DO NOT LOOK TO CREATE LAWS TO STOP IT, but we do PASS LAWS TO DEAL WITH IT, a personal decision that only that person can make and reap the consequences of personally.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:42 pm | Report abuse |
  86. Garth Bock

    Quote from Law and Order – [about gay marriage]
    Jack McCoy: Let 'em marry. Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us?
    Det. Lennie Briscoe: Love – a dangerous disease instantly cured by marriage.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Report abuse |
  87. Jerry

    Marriage is, and always has been, between a man and a woman, (or women). This is in the definition of the word. What right do a small minority have to force the vast majority to alter the definition of a word, of an institution, just for their sole benefit? While I'm not opposed to "civil partnerships" having most of the legal benefits & responsibilities of marriage I must say "leave marriage alone!"

    As for gay adoption, kids are gonna be screwed-up no matter who raises them and that's just normal. However, some the most screwed-up people I've ever known were raised by a "gay" (another word whose meaning has been corrupted,) parent, second only to those raised by druggies. I fail to see the benefit.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:08 pm | Report abuse |
    • Patrick

      We all know what you'd say to a friend that had never heard of civil unions and asked what it meant. You'd reply "Oh it's when gays get M A R R I E D". DUH.

      Marriage means two people making a commitment to spend their lives together. End of story. There's no need to invent a new word for it. We already have one. "Marriage". You just want your special rights.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "However, some the most screwed-up people I've ever known were raised by a "gay"

      The experts have proven this wrong. Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Patrick

      Facts About le$bian and Gay Parenting

      Numerous well-respected authorities agree that children of same-sex parents are as healthy, happy and well-adjusted as their peers raised by heterosexual parents:

      The Child Welfare League of America (CWLA) affirms that le$bian, gay, and bisexual parents are as well suited to raise children as their heterosexual counterparts.

      The American Psychological Association, representing more than 155,000 psychologists, states that children of gay and le$bian parents are at no disadvantage psychologically or socially compared to children of heterosexual parents.

      The American Academy of Pediatrics, the nation’s leading pediatric authority with 57,000 members, says that children who grow up with gay and/or le$bian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social and sexual functioning as children with straight parents.

      The National Association of Social Workers, with nearly 150,000 members, agrees that research on gay and le$bian parenting shows a total absence of pathological findings in their children.

      What Research Tells Us

      A 1995 National Health and Social Life Survey by E.O. Lauman found that up to nine million children in America have gay or le$bian parents (Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health, 2002).

      Evidence to date suggests home environments provided by le$bian and gay parents support and enable children's psychosocial growth, just as do those provided by heterosexual parents (Patterson, 1995)

      There are no systematic differences between gay or le$bian and non-gay or le$bian parents in emotional health, parenting skills, and attitudes toward parenting (Stacey & Biblarz, 2001)

      Evidence shows that children's optimal development is influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by its particular structural form (Perrin, 2002)

      No studies have found risks to or disadvantages for children growing up in families with one or more gay parents, compared to children growing up with heterosexual parents (Perrin, 2002).

      March 12, 2013 at 5:10 pm | Report abuse |
    • Brent

      "Marriage is, and always has been, between a man and a woman, (or women)"

      The term “traditional marriage” is a term employed by anti-gay religious groups and individuals to promote bigotry, prejudice, hostility and discrimination toward gay and lesbian citizens.

      The term is used to justify a social injustice both in terms of denying gay and lesbian individuals equal treatment guaranteed by our Constitution and also denying them human dignity. The use of the term is an action that promotes constitutional unfairness and human indignity and therefore one which is morally wrong.

      If a person of faith agrees that a practice that promotes looking upon a segment of society as inferior, unworthy and undeserving of that which we find as good in our lives, the use of the term “traditional marriage” therefore also must be sinful.

      Regardless of their particular faith, the person would be hard-pressed to say that love, compassion and wanting what is best in our lives for others around us are not the core principles of most religions. When a person of faith stands opposed to those principles, their attitude and actions stand opposed to the principles which they strive to uphold in the everyday interactions with those around them.

      There is also deceit involved in the use of the term “traditional marriage” because those who employ the term attempt to perpetrate an untruth and ulterior motives of hostility and prejudice.

      The untruth comes when “traditional marriage” is offered up as a term that defines a religious concept of a God-blessed union of a young man and woman who fall in love, get married with no prior sexual experience, have children and remain together into old age. They are implying that this is how God ordains marriage.

      If it is, it took him until just 50 years ago to arrive at that conclusion.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jerry

        "Traditional marriage" only came about as a term in the face of the LGBT community's attempts to co-opt the word "marriage". Until very recently in our history almost no one would've ever thought of 2 people of the same sex wanting to marry one another. "Marriage ALWAYS meant "between male and female" (monogamous, polygamous, OR polyandrous,) and it's definition shouldn't be changed solely to suit a small minority.

        Show me where in the Constitution the phrases "sexual preference" or "sexual orientation" exist. Nowhere will you find them because they're not there. The Constitution does not give any special protections to people for sexual orientation as it does for race, color, or religion. Until and unless an Amendment is made to the Constitution to specifically address the people of the LGBT community as a protected minority NO such Constitutional protections exist and no one may be forced to accommodate such. You have no rights based around "being gay". You have EXACTLY the same marriage rights as me: to enter into a marriage with anyone of the opposite sex who is of legal age in your State, mentally competent to enter into a contract, uninfected by venereal disease (still in some States), currently unmarried to anyone else, and stupid enough to say "yes" when you asked them. EXACTLY THE SAME. (And don't bring "love" or "happiness" into it because, as we all know, they and "marriage" are often anathema to one another and are not required to get or be married.) Giving special Constitutional rights for men to marry other men and for women to marry other women? The Founding Fathers would be rolling in their graves at the very thought!

        Next thing you know we'll have Flo Blo from Kokomo suing the government to let her marry Sparky, her Great Dane (he makes her happy, fetches her slippers, and the sex? Whoa!) and Willy Wood from Walla Walla suing for the right to marry the table lamp that he loves (she lights-up his life)! Yes, folks, the former is valid, though currently illegal, lifestyle choice, (exactly like homosexuality once was,) and the second is a currently accepted psychological disorder (also exactly like homosexuality once was). Are their rights being violated? Where does it end?

        (I must admit, in fairness, that I have sometimes thought it might be OK to give gays the right to marry: after all, why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us?)

        March 12, 2013 at 6:13 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          "The Constitution does not give any special protections to people for sexual orientation as it does for race, color, or religion."

          That's why the U S Supreme Court used the 14th Amendment when it said marriage was a civil right because of race. LOL!

          March 12, 2013 at 6:40 pm | Report abuse |
        • Karen

          "Flo Blo from Kokomo suing the government to let her marry Sparky, her Great Dane"

          Bestiality is legal in more states than gay marriage, you stupid person.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          "You have EXACTLY the same marriage rights as me: to enter into a marriage with anyone of the opposite sex who is of legal age in your State"

          OH look Jerry doesn't understand sexual orientation.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Report abuse |
        • Jerry

          Actually, Karen, bestiality is illegal by statute in the majority of States and there is not a single State in which the word "bestiality" is referred to in law in which said law does NOT make it illegal. Any time an instance of bestiality becomes known to the masses in a State in which it is not, at that time, illegal. legislation is soon drafted and passed to make it illegal, Florida being a recent example. More States have debated legalizing "gay marriage" than have EVER debated legalizing "bestiality"!

          There's nothing to be gained by anymore entries, here, so I'm done. I just hope the Supreme Court gets it right, for a change, and goes WITH the will of the People of California instead of against them. "Marriage" is, always has been, and always will be between man and woman (or man & women or men & woman, the operative idea being that it must include at least one member of each gender). Anything else just isn't "marriage", period.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:44 pm | Report abuse |
        • Flavus

          "Next thing you know we'll have Flo Blo from Kokomo suing the government to let her marry Sparky, her Great Dane (he makes her happy, fetches her slippers, and the sex? Whoa!) and Willy Wood from Walla Walla suing for the right to marry the table lamp that he loves (she lights-up his life)! Yes, folks, the former is valid, though currently illegal, lifestyle choice, (exactly like homosexuality once was,) and the second is a currently accepted psychological disorder (also exactly like homosexuality once was). Are their rights being violated? Where does it end?"

          I agree – because once we give Sparky the right to make a LEGAL commitment, then we'll have the fight over allowing dogs to vote. Which will get the cats in a uproar about discrimination based on species.... Where will the insanity end!
          Ooh maybe this will mean my ferret can be president one day – that'll be fun!
          Don't even get me started about the rights of furniture. I will argue till I'm blue in the face that my PEN forged my signature, therefore IT is the one that is liable – not me!

          March 13, 2013 at 1:56 am | Report abuse |
    • LUCAS

      Jerry,

      You suck.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:16 pm | Report abuse |
    • Nun of your buisness

      Actually Jerry, there are places in the world where marriage is/was also traditionally one woman and several men. Polyandry is not unheard of in India, Tibet, Bhutan and Nepal.It was also historically seen in Nigeria, China, Polynesia and brazil.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:20 pm | Report abuse |
    • anchorite

      Well some of the best raised children I know of are from gay couples, including one adoptive couple. Your so called statistics are meaningless compared to real ones.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • Nick

      -There was a time when marriage was a contractual/property exchange between two families. A girl+3 chickens and some jewelry in exchange for your boy+some land to increase the clout of both families...
      -There was a time when no matter how much you hated the person you were wedded to, you had to suffer and attempt to spend as little time with each other as possible...
      -There was a time when marriage could only be with members of your own race...

      Tradition and technology has changed enough to bring gay and lesbian couples out of the shadows and enable them to have children.

      Times change.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:04 pm | Report abuse |
    • Sam

      Hah, yeah, because the words and their definitions NEVER EVER change. Never through out history has any word ever gained a new definition. All words are set in stone. You still talk like a 18th century colonist right? Yeah, me, too.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eli

      So you're claiming ownership of a word that - contrary to what you say - has changed tremendously over the course of human history, and for the sake of pedantry, you'll deny others the right to pursue their consensual, domestic happiness?

      What does the Bible say about pride, the plank in your eye, being gracious toward others, Jerry?

      March 12, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jerry

        Since nothing said in the Bible is real, why would I put any credence in it? It's all stuff & nonsense, the delusional scribblings of insane men believed by irrational people who should know better. All people who are against gay marriage are NOT 'thumpers!

        March 12, 2013 at 7:50 pm | Report abuse |
        • Eli

          You may reject the Divine Authority of the Bible, but there's really no rational way to claim there aren't some good pieces of advice in it, like the Golden Rule and most of the 10 Commandments.

          If you're basing opposition to homosexuality and equal treatment of homosexuals on anything else, it's even worse, frankly. If it's based on religion, at the very least you have a 2000 year-old steamroller of an institution that has trained you to believe a certain way, so it's kind of a bigger issue than just you. If you're just basing it on your own... stuff... you're totally on your own w/ no excuse. Sheesh.

          March 12, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Report abuse |
  88. issac2

    I agree with Gay rights but i draw the line when it comes to gay couple raising kids. Can you imagine how those kids would get bullied at school when their peers figure out that they have two moms or two dads? The kid did not have any choice in this how can they be subjected to taunts for no fault of theirs?

    March 12, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Report abuse |
    • David

      "Can you imagine how those kids would get bullied at school when their peers figure out that they have two moms or two dads? The kid did not have any choice in this how can they be subjected to taunts for no fault of theirs?"

      It's because children that bully others are highly insecure and are probably being raised by prejudice bigots like you.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:06 pm | Report abuse |
      • NooYawkah

        Yes, if only we could all be as understanding and tolerant as the gay community.

        March 12, 2013 at 5:07 pm | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          It's why the experts released this statement. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

          March 12, 2013 at 5:08 pm | Report abuse |
        • David

          I am not gay.

          March 12, 2013 at 5:09 pm | Report abuse |
      • Isaac

        he disagrees with it. how does that make him a bigot. I dont like it when people like you call anyone who has a different viewpoint a bigot

        March 12, 2013 at 5:53 pm | Report abuse |
    • Really?

      "Can you imagine how those kids would get bullied at school when their peers figure out that they have two moms or two dads?"

      The experts show they turn out just fine. Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:07 pm | Report abuse |
      • Jerry

        Girls raised by a lesbian mother tend to be heterosexually promiscuous at an early age, to abuse drugs, to become teen mothers, and to be at high risk of catching venereal diseases. The first as a way of establishing that they are NOT like their mothers but are normal, the rest following as a natural progression from the first. This is not based on any "study" but from firsthand knowledge of over half a dozen such girls/women since my teens. "Studies" fail to take into account one major truth: people lie. People lie to researchers and researchers tend to include only that data which supports their viewpoint. Most "studies" are worthless and fall in the face of reality,

        March 12, 2013 at 5:24 pm | Report abuse |
        • Pete

          Jerry you are one prejudice bigot. CNN just did a piece on the fact that pimps are now using Facebook to recruit young women into prostitution. They target girls from Christian families because they know those are the most promiscuous and are seeking thrills or are being rebellious. Now based on your really poor logic should we discriminate against all Christians because of it. What a moron.

          March 12, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Report abuse |
        • Really?

          Jerry I am quoting experts that used decades of research and you are using just one example from your experience. That's pathetic.

          March 12, 2013 at 5:37 pm | Report abuse |
        • A

          Jerry –

          As the child of a lesbian mother, I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. As a teenager, I never thought to myself, "gee, I should go have sex with a man to show the world that I'm straight or 'normal.'" In fact, every.single. teenage mother that I have ever known was the daughter of a heterosexual couple.

          I am now a 27-year old, college-educated, well-adjusted woman who is married, has a successful career, travels the world and is very open-minded...thanks to my lesbian mother, who in your opinion, should have turned me into a teenage harlot just because she's gay.

          You should be ashamed of yourself for making such broad generalizations.

          March 12, 2013 at 5:48 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Bullshit, Jerry. And you know it's bullshit, which makes it even funnier.

          March 12, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Report abuse |
        • Jerry

          Pete, there are already far too many GOOD reasons to discriminate against Christians and their daughters being s!utty isn't one of them! ;P

          To the young lady: good for you! I never claimed ALL would be as the eight I've known and they may not provide an ideal baseline but ALL 8 of them raised by 7 openly lesbian mothers turned out that way. I've never personally known any girl raised by an openly lesbian mother who did not turn out that way. None were adopted, all had (straight) fathers they knew. This has been my experience over the past 30-some-odd years since junior high and my personal observation. Your mileage may vary.

          To the rest: Only a bigot can call anyone else a bigot. You are bigots because you discriminate against any who back the status quo, against all who don't willingly embrace changes that you want in the society that INCLUDES THEM. I've had gay friends. I've had gay guys hit on me without me hitting them for it (and, no, I'm not saying a guy should hit them for it!). Most of my friends believe in imaginary sky fairies and life-after-death but they're still my friends. I have friends who believe as I do and friends who don't. You may label me "bigot" or "homophobe" but you're wrong: I don't hate anyone for being who they are and am not at all afraid of homosexuals. I speak calmly and rationally about my beliefs and experiences. All the vitriolic retorts come from you people. No bu||sh!t.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Jerry...you're a dumb son of a bitch. Being intolerant towards intolerance does not equal bigotry. Nice try with your mental gymnastics, though. The French judge gives you an 8.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:24 pm | Report abuse |
        • Wow!

          "You are bigots because you discriminate against any who back the status quo, "

          That has to be one of the funniest sentences I've ever read. Jerry and logic are not friends at all I think

          March 12, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Report abuse |
    • Dan

      I know a few kids high school age with same sex parents. They're just like other kids their age.

      You say you agree with gay rights, then demonstrate how you don't.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Report abuse |
    • Andrea

      We are living in a time and age where our public school system is going to make sure kids of gay/lebsians aren't going to be bullied. Just browse through the news these days, our entire society is becoming more and more accepting of the fact that gay/lesbians are SPECIAL

      March 12, 2013 at 5:35 pm | Report abuse |
    • Doesn't GOD say not to judge anyway?

      "I agree with Gay rights but i draw the line when it comes to gay couple raising kids. Can you imagine how those kids would get bullied at school when their peers figure out that they have two moms or two dads? The kid did not have any choice in this how can they be subjected to taunts for no fault of theirs?"

      ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE, though NOT mine!!!:

      ******* “I agree with Civil rights, but I draw the line when it comes to black people raising white kids, or white people raising black kids. Can you imagine how those kids would get bullied at school when their peers figure out that they have parents of two different races? The kid did not have any choice in this how can they be subjected to taunts for no fault of theirs?”

      -– While we’re still working on racial prejudice, millions of people seem to have gotten past the idea of multiracial children being somehow “wrong“. Why can’t we get past the idea of “wrongness” for sexual orientation? It’s not like gay parents have gay sex *in front of* the children! My mom and dad never had sex in front of me, either! What matters skin color, what matters if someone likes men or women, as long as the person is a GOOD person????

      March 12, 2013 at 5:39 pm | Report abuse |
    • sam

      So because some people out there are neanderthals who can't handle different family structures, that means everyone should duck and cover and make sure kids won't be raised by people that might get them made fun of?

      Ugly people shouldn't have kids either then. Or fat people. Or anyone who's different from the 'norm'.

      Kids will always find something to hassle other kids over.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Report abuse |
      • demaris

        Please don't disrespect the Neanderthals. They got a bum rap.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:17 pm | Report abuse |
        • sam

          Good point. I'd take a good neanderthal over plenty of these folks...

          March 12, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Report abuse |
    • Celyia

      I remember my mother, in her blithe ignorance, saying the same thing to me about interracial children. "More power to them for trying a mixed relationship, but how -dare- they bring children into it. Those children will only be tormented while growing up."

      Of course, she didn't seem to realize that her own children - being the product of a white mother and latino father - were also considered interracial. I remember thinking that I wouldn't want to be anyone other than me. My background has given me the ability to look at the world through different eyes and that's a gift.

      Children will tease other children. It won't matter if the kids are interracial. Or their parents are gay. Or if their father is a garbage man. Kids will find reasons to tease.

      I appreciate your kindness in looking out for their welfare, but that teasing is not a good enough reason to deprive children a chance to live. Their lives won't be unceasing sorrow after sorrow simply because their parents are gay. Our worlds, our spirits, are bigger than that.

      The world will only change if we change first.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • demaris

        Little Ricky, is that you?

        March 12, 2013 at 6:18 pm | Report abuse |
    • Eli

      Actually, as a 17-year classroom veteran, I've seen that this is practically a non-issue for students. You're projecting your generation (and mine, fine) onto the next generation.

      March 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bruce B.

      Clearly you do not actually "agree with gay rights" then.

      Maybe the problem with LGBT couples raising children isn't with the LGBT couple; maybe the fault lies in the bigoted people teaching their kids to hate what is "different".

      March 12, 2013 at 6:58 pm | Report abuse |
    • Bre

      Actually, as hard as it may be to believe, it's becoming increasingly normal for children to be raised in "alternative" environments, and for other people to accept that. My three siblings and I were raised for a majority of our lives by our two mothers. My parents got divorced when we were young, and my father had little to do with us as we were growing up. We grew up in the small town boondocks, where there were five farms that we had to ride past on the bus to get to school every morning. It is not an area which one would generally call 'progressive', I actually consider it to be about ten years behind the times, myself.

      Regardless of that fact, none of us ever had a problem with bullying because of our mothers. Rather surprisingly, my mothers actually faced minimal harassment and discrimination (though there was that one neighbor and ever the odd bigot). On the whole we had what I consider to be a rather typical childhood, with no negative results. Even now, my niece and nephew (5 and 4 years old) have absolutely zero problems with having two 'mimis'. Like most other toddlers, they actually prefer their grandparents' house to mommy's.

      March 13, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Report abuse |
  89. the middle man

    HEY!

    Please stand up for denomination and stop being a generic "Christian" for instance.

    If you are Catholic tell me what the name of the church you belong to is, where it is located, and why your denomination is the only true religion and why for instance are all Methodists wrong.

    Please help every one here to see the light....

    March 12, 2013 at 5:02 pm | Report abuse |
    • name

      No one with half a brain would give a location of their church, or any place they visit, on the internet.

      Not really religious myself but I know some of the history, Catholicism was started by the first pope, St. Peter, who was one of Jesus' apostles. So I guess technically one could actually argue that Catholicism is the "true" Christian religion (since it was started by an Apostle, someone who personally knew and followed the "son of God") and the others are "wrong". The other Christian religions are branches off of Catholicism because people felt like changing things. For example, King Henry VIII created the Episcopal church so he could divorce his wife.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:45 pm | Report abuse |
      • the middle man

        A BUNCH OF PETERS, huh?

        March 12, 2013 at 5:58 pm | Report abuse |
  90. Why is this news?

    This happens all the time in this country and no one ever bats an eye at it. Speak with all the fathers who can not interact with their children because they have been stolen from them by the mother. Dead beat dads exist because they have no children.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • the middle man

      Did this happen to your brother Tim and his wife Jane?

      [5:25] “What this really was is what we call a fiction under the law. There was an attempt to create law where none exists. In Michigan, marriage is defined as marriage between a man and a woman. Some activist judges, quite frankly, decide they don’t like the law the way it is so they come up with a ruse to get around that situation.”

      This is why it is news.

      It is a law and like others they change, eye for an eye to practice forgiveness, it has happened for forever, especially when it is a law that prevents someone from obtaining their fundamental right to happiness, when their decision does not harm the people around them. (In this case, divorce hurts all, you would think that God's view on divorce would be debated here, but since you have all chosen to OVERLOOK it, this debate has turned into a judgmental issue and not a debate based on proof. That is ironic since the whole basis for much of this this unwillingness to tolerate is also not a provable existence but one must only accept as the truth. So to be fair, as soon as it is proven that there is a God (when God reveals himself) that does not accept homosexuality, we must afford these brothers and sisters the same rights as we have been afforded.)

      That is the reality we live in.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:21 pm | Report abuse |
  91. Kuron

    Many of the people who are pointing the finger at LGBT couples were also involved in adultery themselves (including some well-known pastors). Christians should not be in the business of judging or condemning others, but praying. The Bible says we should remove the plank of wood from our own eye before we try to take the speck of dust our of our brother's eye (Matthew 7:3-5). I am a straight person and a Christian. I leave the job of judging to the Lord.

    March 12, 2013 at 5:00 pm | Report abuse |
    • LivinginVA

      Given that Jesus said anyone who remarries after divorce, except for reasons of infidelity, is committing adultery, they should certainly be worrying about the state of the souls of many of their congregation and less about those who don't believe as they do.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:51 pm | Report abuse |
      • tim

        From my Christian friends, and the Pastor from my childhood church that refused to marry a divorced friend of ours, I tend to think Paul had the issue with divorce, not Jesus. I mean, really, I'm not Christian, I don't study the Bible at all, but don't I remember something about Jesus standing up and defending a prostitute named Mary?

        March 12, 2013 at 10:47 pm | Report abuse |
  92. Isaac

    Now I'm not to sure where I stand on the gay marriage issue. I don't exactly agree with their lifestyle but I respect them for who they are. But on the basis of allowing them to adopt I see it as this. A child should have both a father and a mother figure to raise him/her in stead of two mother figures or two father figures.

    March 12, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Report abuse |
    • Pete

      "A child should have both a father and a mother figure to raise him/her in stead of two mother figures or two father figures."

      There experts have shown that like their heterosexual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

      Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-sex partners closely resemble those of heterosexual partnerships. Like heterosexual couples, same-sex couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterosexual and same-sex couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterosexual couples.

      A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-sex parents as it is for children of opposite-sex parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-sex parents as for children of opposite-sex parents.

      Assertions that heterosexual couples are inherently better parents than same sex couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterosexual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterosexual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.

      March 12, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Report abuse |
      • Pete

        This is a copy and paste from the other page by "Really?"

        March 12, 2013 at 4:58 pm | Report abuse |
      • Really?

        Thanks Pete

        March 12, 2013 at 5:02 pm | Report abuse |
      • Brandon

        Well said, just beautiful.

        March 12, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Report abuse |
    • Davejs

      Ideally a child would have two parents and no "figures" raising him/her.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Report abuse |
      • tim

        The interesting thing in reading all of this: I get back to the 'just how many gay people do you know?" at one point we are portrayed as two father (male roles) or two mothers (female roles), then we are portrayed trying to adopt a male and female role of a 'traditional family.' Perhaps that is where the disconnect for these backward people. There are NO GENDER ROLES in a homosexual marriage. I'm the employed one (a male role) but I wash our cloths (a female role). He does the cooking and majority of the house work (a female role) but I'm not allowed to touch his power tools. I bought the car (a male role) and he grips about my decision (a female role) (tongue in cheek with all of this.) And we both fight about where they other is spending *our* money.

        What more could you want in a parent but a shining example of the fact that these gender roles no longer have a place in the child rearing.

        March 12, 2013 at 10:59 pm | Report abuse |
  93. Diane

    I am constantly surprised that many people who read CNN news are so ignorant/intolerant.

    March 12, 2013 at 4:54 pm | Report abuse |
  94. JN Dauterive

    This is so sad. How can the twins birth mother live with herself after how badly she exploited another human being. There is a special place in hell for her, not for her choices about her life but for her choice to use and wound and walk on another so terribly.

    March 12, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Report abuse |
    • surrndbyGeniuses

      what's sad is how millions of straight people live with themseves when they give birth to 2.5 children AND have 2.5 divorces? don't worry, there's plenty of room in hell. How dare a gay couple divorce? Is DIVORCE also only reserved for straight couples? uhhhh.... thickheaded people who would NEVER acknowlege they are no better than those who thought "colored folks" should drink from a different fountain.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:33 pm | Report abuse |
      • LivinginVA

        Given what Jesus had to say on the matter of divorce, all those straight folks are going to hell, too.

        March 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm | Report abuse |
        • Sam

          Good thing it isn't real.

          March 12, 2013 at 6:15 pm | Report abuse |
  95. Loving supporter

    Sad story and a lot of bigoted comments about the inequalities shown to this mother! Seriously people, don't you think the most important aspect of parenting is to raise your children in a loving, law abiding home? It saddens me to know there are so many biased people, who have the time to write dissertations about their beliefs. I hope Marie's children know some day about the lengthy struggle, and heartbreak she has suffered, in her quest to see her children. They (the children) are being robbed of the opportunity to know this brilliant, compassionate woman! Keep working to right this mixed up world, Marie!

    March 12, 2013 at 4:50 pm | Report abuse |
    • markus

      Coming from a fairly conservative Christian, I completely agree Loving Supporter!!!

      March 12, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Report abuse |
      • Eli

        I am really pleased and encouraged to see so many Christians who identify as conservative coming around and supporting marriage equality. When you really start listening to people's stories, no one who knows Christ should be able to deny where His love and compassion is directing him or her.

        March 12, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Report abuse |
        • Scott

          Oddly, the Bible...which is commonly understood to be the primary source of our knowledge about Jesus, his apostles, and their teachings, very specifically condemns homosexual behavior. I certainly question the validity of comments from supposed conservative Christians who support gay marriage.

          March 12, 2013 at 7:22 pm | Report abuse |
        • Eli

          That's debatable, Scott, but even if you were right, the Bible says much more about being gracious toward others. And notice I didn't say anything about conservative Christians accepting homosexuality in and of itself. I said that in growing numbers they are supporting the rights of people they may still consider abhorrent to have the same marital rights.

          How would you justify the spiteful withholding of others' freedom to your Maker? Don't we all choose or reject Christ of our own free-will? Isn't that was is beautiful about Christianity, that it is accessible to anyone who so chooses it? How can you not extend that freedom to choose to others in other areas?

          March 12, 2013 at 8:44 pm | Report abuse |
    • anchorite

      That's right. Studies have shown time and again that children who grow up in a loving home turn out the best. Two parents are best, but more than half of all heterosexual couples can't even manage that until a child is 18, so it is important to make sure the children are with parents who love them rather than use one's position as a judge for religious d**ksize statements like this judge is doing.

      March 12, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Report abuse |
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